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Discussion Starter #1
Changing the fluids in my 117 motor and found a high level of mud, plus a bigger concern, flakes of shiny metal.... seemed like quite a bit too. The bottom of my reusable filter canister had many of them floating around.
I took the filter to work, had it put through a filtration test for the particles. Performed a SEM EDAX analysis and found it to be an Aluminum-Silicon Alloy. Looks like forged Al pistons are made from this type material, along with crank cases.

It also showed some Cu-Ni-Fe on the surface of these flakes. I'm wondering if this could be the piston skirts.. Mine had a dark coating on them for breakin. Forgot what this coating material was..

Has anybody had similar issues?


I guess I will need to pull it apart to look at it closer...
 

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Mud? as in material that looks like anti sieze? I hate to say it but I'm betting you are having cylinder/piston issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Mud? as in material that looks like anti sieze? I hate to say it but I'm betting you are having cylinder/piston issues.
Ya, there was the mud on the drain plg magnet... never seen it get do there before. There was a lot of it on the filter mag..

Two of my threads last year may be the issue manifesting....

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine-mods/177607-k-p-filter-mud.html

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/twin-cam-engine-mods/179821-frosty-cylinder-wall.html
 

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Well lets hope the metal is from the piston rings and not the crank pin or big end of rods.
 

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Did Axtell ever get back to you last winter, when you sent him pictures?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well lets hope the metal is from the piston rings and not the crank pin or big end of rods.
I'll second that....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Did Axtell ever get back to you last winter, when you sent him pictures?
I had discussions with them about the cylinders and they said to run and monitor them. So if it ends up being related to what I saw, I'm hoping they will support me.
 

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Good luck Laser...


Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app
 

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This sounds all to familiar and expensive. Been through it twice, and am hoping by going with S&S cylinders I will not have to go through it again. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
This sounds all to familiar and expensive. Been through it twice, and am hoping by going with S&S cylinders I will not have to go through it again. Good luck.
Thanks bowtech...Well, I guess I'll know once I pull it apart. So you swapped out the cylinders and rings only?
 

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I had discussions with them about the cylinders and they said to run and monitor them. So if it ends up being related to what I saw, I'm hoping they will support me.
I am sure they will. you have done your part.
my filter still looks like that also,but hey you seen my lifters.

Well, I guess I'll know once I pull it apart
given your situation...i would have ran a hone and ringed it this season anyway. have you ran the scope in it again? if so you got video or pic? :clap: come on its winter:)
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I am sure they will. you have done your part.
We'll see.... Depending on the prognosis....

it may be something totally unrelated... but whatever the cause, I can't imagine it's normal wear...


given your situation...i would have ran a hone and ringed it this season anyway. have you ran the scope in it again? if so you got video or pic? :clap: come on its winter:)
I went with Ron's recommendation. Maybe we'll all learn from my beta testing....

My borescopes a pos... no video and no right angle view...so can't see much. What I could see looked OK, but it's like trying to judge a women's body by by staring at the back of her head...LOL
 

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I am tearing my engine down soon, to check out what I believe is a warm engine piston knock. It quiets down when fully warmed up, but I can't stand it. I have found mud and what looked like grey silicone, in my filter, during my multiple oil changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I am tearing my engine down soon, to check out what I believe is a warm engine piston knock. It quiets down when fully warmed up, but I can't stand it. I have found mud and what looked like grey silicone, in my filter, during my multiple oil changes.
Cool we can compare notes.... I found some grey particles, and redish ones too, but not much... I figure it was rtv, or something.

I'm mainly concerned about the Al-Si flakes... Piston, most likely... maybe oil pump...
I'll post a pic of the debris filtration sample. It's also littered with the iron mud.

Found no low carbon steel anywhere, which to me is good news (bearings,crank pin, wrist pins).
 

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Wow, your all scientific and stuff...cool..Sucks to hears your having issues again..Was it that much in the filter to alarm you? More than the pics i posted a while back?

Mines coming down in a few weeks as well. Mine was running great just got bored..... I am armed some new tools this winter as well.
 

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oil filter gunk

Hey Laserp, sorry to hear about that. Hope it's not a cyl./piston issue as more than a few of us with 117" builds that used those specific cyl./piston kits from that company in Des Moines, Ia. failed to get any compensation what so ever. Let us know what you find out, because if he is covering those cyls. and that is the case(and I hope it's not), he's got more than a few others to cover also. I bet your oil
cooler caused the cyl. failure, or it wasn't tuned right, of course. PM me if you want builders to call that have had issues with these particular cyl./kits, as they don't use them anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wow, your all scientific and stuff...cool..Sucks to hears your having issues again..Was it that much in the filter to alarm you? More than the pics i posted a while back?

Mines coming down in a few weeks as well. Mine was running great just got bored..... I am armed some new tools this winter as well.
Hey Tx! How you doin!

Ya, my background is in aerospace bearing engineering, so I have some pretty cool tools around for analysis.
Here's a couple pics of the debris... The dark grey background is the mud. The Shiny big flakes are the Al-Si.

On the brighter side, for the Glide, my Andrews 54 cams are here and my heads are at Beans!! :woohoo:
Once I get this one put back together, I'll tear into the Hulk!! Keeps me busy in the winter for sure...
Laser
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey Laserp, sorry to hear about that. Hope it's not a cyl./piston issue as more than a few of us with 117" builds that used those specific cyl./piston kits from that company in Des Moines, Ia. failed to get any compensation what so ever. Let us know what you find out, because if he is covering those cyls. and that is the case(and I hope it's not), he's got more than a few others to cover also. I bet your oil
cooler caused the cyl. failure, or it wasn't tuned right, of course. PM me if you want builders to call that have had issues with these particular cyl./kits, as they don't use them anymore.
Hey RK100, thanks for your condolences. I really don't know how bad it is, but am glad I went with this filter! A couple of the guys I really respect on this forum convinced me that it was a good idea. Tex and Durwood come to mind.. along with Dave at JD's. A stitch in time saves nine (or $5k)...

I'd like to talk to the builders for sure, to see what to do, once I find out what the problem is for sure.. I'll see what Ron's take is first though..
Laser
 

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Unless an engine is hand built and every piece massaged,little flakes of metal will be found floating around in the oil.The machining process always leaves tiny burrs unless they are filed or polished off they will end up in the filter hopefully.All my new Harleys back in the 70's had those little flecks in the filter housing.When I started building all my own motors never found any more flecks of metal.
 
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