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I am torn..

As a liberal, as an American, as a Jew, on how to deal with this. I want the freedom of speech, right up there with freedom to bear arms, but I also want this guy to be dipped in a pile of flaming hot sh1t. A lot of us who believe in the right to protect home and family may not end up fighting a tyranical government but rather fighting those who would change the way we live based on a tyranical religion. The gap between American right and left might be narrower than you think. And, yes, I feel the loyalty to you as much as I do my own local club.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
they'll change your mind

if they mean what they say, torn no longer.





Fred1369 said:
As a liberal, as an American, as a Jew, on how to deal with this. I want the freedom of speech, right up there with freedom to bear arms, but I also want this guy to be dipped in a pile of flaming hot sh1t. A lot of us who believe in the right to protect home and family may not end up fighting a tyranical government but rather fighting those who would change the way we live based on a tyranical religion. The gap between American right and left might be narrower than you think. And, yes, I feel the loyalty to you as much as I do my own local club.
 

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we aren't talking about freedom of religion here. we are talking about freedom from religion.
 

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and, it's not just here in the good ol' USA. they are taking over Europe. It's only a matter of time before violence rears it's ugly head over the whole world. There are lots of peaceful Muslims here but the fanatic ones want to see all civilization burn.
 

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Lee Clarke said:
So, you agree, with PR3VS56, that Christianity should be the " official " religion of the USA?
Typical attorney, twisting words. Is that how you get your sex offenders off, and their records expunged?

Where did I say, or even elude to, an "official" religion?
 

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Fred1369 said:
we aren't talking about freedom of religion here. we are talking about freedom from religion.
I don't believe you will find freedom FROM religion anywhere in the constitution.
 

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I read most of the link. I see nothing wrong with what they say. They want to convert the US to Islam, peacefully. Seems perfectly reasonable and legal to me.

After doing so they intend to replace our constitution with Sharia. Seems perfectly reasonable, and legal to me.

Their methods are taken right out of the General Petraeus handbook; convert the people from a grassroots level up. Seems perfectly resonable to me and legal to me.

I don't get it Fred. What are you upset about? This Country can legally go toward Sharia if it chooses to. It can re-write the constitution word for word if it chooses to.

Their goal of conversion by 2050 has a couple of road blocks which they will have to overcome however.

Perhaps the biggest concern for them is the 80% of Americans currently practicing another faith. But there is nothing wrong with hoping is there? For example did you know that the #2 religion in Black America (Islam's target group) is Catholic? That's a tough tough group to convert. And #1 is southern baptist, good luck in moving that demographic.

Want to stop their plan? Practice your own faith, be an example to your children of what your faith means to you. You have a problem with Islam? Then give the next generation more to believe in than Rap music and Halloween IV movies.
 

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PR3VS56 said:
Where did I say, or even elude to, an "official" religion?

" Step 1 was removal of prayer from our schools, as well as ALL references to Christianity in public places.... "

Take a look at the Constitution of the United States.
No religion has preference, over any other, nor is anyone required to have a religion.
I know, I know, our Country's Founding Fathers were " liberals ". :yikes:
 

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Man this is just plain crazy. First we have a woman trying to run our government, and now this! Can it get any worse? #@SasF#
 

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Lee Clarke said:
" Step 1 was removal of prayer from our schools, as well as ALL references to Christianity in public places.... "

Take a look at the Constitution of the United States.
No religion has preference, over any other, nor is anyone required to have a religion.
Hmmmmmm. Sorry Lee, can't find that statement in our Constitution. You're not embellishing again are you?
 

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I'm more than a little concerned about ANY religious zealotry...just read some of the posts by the more zealous Christians, change a couple of words and you might confuse it for the radical Muslim Mantra...you've all read it and know exactly what I mean...that's the reason religion should remain removed from any form of government decision making but saying that I have no issue with allowing the use of God/Allah/Krishna/Buddha or any other deity in anthems, prayers or pledges so long as all faiths are given equal recognition/representation...as the constitution suggests and people should be free to use that freedom of expression on government or personal property.

That is true religious freedom free of discrimination...I have no doubt that there will be argument that this isn't what America is about...wanna guess where that argument will come from???
 

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swmnkdinthervr said:
I'm more than a little concerned about ANY religious zealotry...just read some of the posts by the more zealous Christians, change a couple of words and you might confuse it for the radical Muslim Mantra...you've all read it and know exactly what I mean...that's the reason religion should remain removed from any form of government but saying that I have no issue with allowing the use of God/Allah/Krishna/Buddha or any other deity in anthems, prayers or pledges so long as all faiths are given equal recognition...as per the constitution. on government or personal property.
OK, let's explore your thought. Congress (House and Senate) convenes with opening prayers. You want that we would pray to Allah, and chant to whomever? What's a religion? Who will be represented? How many prayers should they say? Like mandated minority hiring, do we mandate minimum representation from all religions? Or, should we just eliminate it altogether (like in our schools)?
 

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PR3VS56 said:
OK, let's explore your thought. Congress (House and Senate) convenes with opening prayers. You want that we would pray to Allah, and chant to whomever? What's a religion? Who will be represented? How many prayers should they say? Like mandated minority hiring, do we mandate minimum representation from all religions? Or, should we just eliminate it altogether (like in our schools)?
You want we should pray to God...are you making the point that only Christians can have representation or are you arguing that Christianity is the only true religion and the God of the Christians is the only true God...do ya see where we're going here???

Back to my post
...I'm referring to true religious freedom as spelled out in the Constitution...but I guess you'd make the point that our forefathers didn't really mean it that way?

Let's continue to explore my thought....
(as edited, I need to clarify :D)

swmnkdinthervr said:
I'm more than a little concerned about ANY religious zealotry...just read some of the posts by the more zealous Christians, change a couple of words and you might confuse it for the radical Muslim Mantra...you've all read it and know exactly what I mean...that's the reason religion should remain removed from any form of government decision making but saying that I have no issue with allowing the use of God/Allah/Krishna/Buddha or any other deity in anthems, prayers or pledges so long as all faiths are given equal recognition/representation...as the constitution suggests and people should be free to use that freedom of expression on government or personal property.

That is true religious freedom free of discrimination...I have no doubt that there will be argument that this isn't what America is about...wanna guess where that argument will come from???
 

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swmnkdinthervr said:
You want we should pray to God...are you making the point that only Christians can have representation or are you arguing that Christianity is the only true religion and the God of the Christians is the only true God...do ya see where we're going here???
It's not that I'm arguing -- I KNOW that Jesus Christ is the one and only. The Alpha and the Omega. The Lord God!

We pray, currently, to THIS God. Our country was born of THIS God. He is on our currency, and every President takes an oath of office with his hand on a Christian Bible.

You would do what?
 
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