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03 Heritage
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Guys, I'm hoping to get some advise about how my motor is running. Mine is a 2003 Heritage Classic. I changed the stock mufflers for Screamin Eagle torque mufflers (p/n 80388-01). Otherwise the motor is bone stock, including the air cleaner. Also, I am still using the stock ECM MAP. Since the mufflers, I get a very mild popping on decel.
Anyway...can some of you experts give me a read on the pic of the front spark plug?
OK?, too lean?...etc?
Thanks in advance
P.S. About 3k miles on plugs
 

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03 Heritage
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491 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Thanks for the reply. I was hopeing to avoid more money, but if I have to do something I think I'll go with a SERT and a
SE air cleaner or Big Sucker. Appreciate the help.
 

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03 Heritage
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491 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Yah DELUXE I hear ya. Thanks for the input. I like to tinker and the best I can tell you could "tinker to your hearts content" with the SERT. I'd love to give it a try. I've read the manual. I understand 50% of it. Another few reads and I'll be at 70%. Also, I've read Springer great post (the sticky). Thanks again Springer! Since the SERT doesn't allow retrieving the current MAP (mine is stock), I'd like to fall back to a pro at with a Dyno in case I get myself into deep $&^*.
How do you find an engine tuner that knows the SERT. I live in Charlotte NC.
 

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rtb said:
Guys, I'm hoping to get some advise about how my motor is running. Mine is a 2003 Heritage Classic. I changed the stock mufflers for Screamin Eagle torque mufflers (p/n 80388-01). Otherwise the motor is bone stock, including the air cleaner. Also, I am still using the stock ECM MAP. Since the mufflers, I get a very mild popping on decel.
Anyway...can some of you experts give me a read on the pic of the front spark plug?
OK?, too lean?...etc?
Thanks in advance
P.S. About 3k miles on plugs
I'd like to see the rear plug, can you post a picture of it?

What I like about the front plug is the position of the timing mark on the electrode, it appears to be spot on.
 

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I agree..the timing mark is where it should be...and I think the firing ring if thats what I see looks correct as its about half way down. I'd ride it.
 

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yeah, I had a hard time deciding if that was fuel ring lurking in the shadow or not..... that's why I want to see the rear plug.
 

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03 Heritage
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491 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I'll post a picture of the rear plug later tonight after work and evening plans.
This place is great...always something to learn from you gurus!
What is a "timing mark" on the electrode? Thanks again for the advice.
 

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Yes, in the EFI bikes I'm familiar with, the rear cylinder does tend to run richer. I want to see the porcelain on rtb's rear plug to confirm this and to see ifthe fuel ring is more visible in the photo. and yes, with the SERT you can adjust the VE tables individually for AFR and you should also individually adjust the spark timing.

The timing mark is clearly visible on rtb's front plug on the 90* ground electrode. It's the color change on the electrode at the bend. If the spark timing were too retarded, the color change mark would be further out towards the tip end. If you are too advanced, the mark would be down towards the threads. Ideal is right in the bend.

Actually, the way the dragbike guys look at fuel ring and timing mark is they do a WOT blast and hit the kill switch. This preserves the reading from WOT. Ifyou let it idle, you change the plug reading.

Technically, this would be a good thing to do on a street performance motor too. It gives you insight from operating at WOT as to what the conditions are in the cylinder at max power.
 

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Totenkopf said:
yeah, I had a hard time deciding if that was fuel ring lurking in the shadow or not..... that's why I want to see the rear plug.
New Guy here

Tell me a little about the timing and fuel rings.

Thanks

Bob
 

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Actually, the way the dragbike guys look at fuel ring and timing mark is they do a WOT blast and hit the kill switch. This preserves the reading from WOT. Ifyou let it idle, you change the plug reading.

Technically, this would be a good thing to do on a street performance motor too. It gives you insight from operating at WOT as to what the conditions are in the cylinder at max power.
Would you learn anything on a street motor to run the engine at criuse rpm and kill the engine to do a plug read? My thinking is, street motors spend more time at a cruise rpm than at WOT. Trying to learn something here..........
 

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Neckball said:
Would you learn anything on a street motor to run the engine at criuse rpm and kill the engine to do a plug read? My thinking is, street motors spend more time at a cruise rpm than at WOT. Trying to learn something here..........
No ..cause what's happening at idle and WOT. My opinion, with the way todays fuel makes plug reading so much more difficult, is to stick 2 new ones in and just forget about them for 50 miles, then see what you have. But your thinking is correct..you're at WOT hardly ever in comparison to total riding time....A 50 mile run is enough to give you the "average" picture you need for a street motor.
 

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03 Heritage
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491 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Totenkopf...here is the pic of the rear plug. I'm learning much, thanks. What do you think after looking at both the front and read plugs? Should I go to the expense of the ECM remap to run it richer? I'm not interested in more power, so to avoid cost I'd rather not do an air cleaner and remap, but I sure would if I'm running so lean that I may be hurting my engine.
 

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rtb,
Both plugs show a very good timing mark and the appearance of the usual leaness that is built into the stock setup. It is hard to see if there is any fuel ring down the side of the porcelain because of the lack of lighting and the shadow. But generally I would say they look pretty good. The decel popping you mention earlier is fairly normal and not easy to totally eliminate but it can be improved sometimes by adding(or taking away) fuel. I would not spend the money on the ECM remap but what I would suggest is looking at one of the fuel adders. I've used the Dobeck Performance Techlusion TFI module with excellent results on a stock motor with pipes and stage 1 filter/ac. It's simple to setup and adds fuel in the right spots. They have good support and the product works as advertised. Here's the link if you are curious.

http://www.techlusion.com

Hopefully you read through the spark plug reading links I provided previously. You can begin to see how valuable reading the plugs is to understanding what your motor is telling you.

Hope this was helpful for you.
 

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03 Heritage
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491 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Totenkopf, I can't say thanks enough. I have read through the links you provided. I'll have to read them a couple more time to better understanding...but I'm catching on.
If I need to do anything I may just keep an eye out for a deal on a SERT. It would allow me to dial-in the AFR, and the SERT also seems to me to have some pretty cool tinkering value. It's nice to hear that I don't have an urgent need. Man...thanks again and to the rest of you good folks for the advice and discussion. A round on me.
P.S. I just came back from a quick 45 mile loop from home in Charlotte, N.C. through waxhaw and back. What a great motorcyle Harley makes and a great night for a ride!
 

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03 Heritage
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Totenkopf (or anyone else)...after reading more I finally understand what you were talking about when you said that it is hard to see the fuel ring on the porcelain, so I took the plugs back out and got pics that show the porcelain better. At the risk of being a pest, do these views change any of your diagnosis?
Thanks again.
 

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no change, it's lean. There should be a faint line part way down the ceramic insulator. I don't see it. You need to add fuel in the right places, probably in the common cruise VE cells to start. It really should be done with the bike on a chassis dyno that has a eddy current brake for setting load on the motor and 2 AFR sniffers, one for each cylinder.
 

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03 Heritage
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Discussion Starter #18
Got it. Thanks again.
 

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The OTHER White Meat.
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My plugz?

Would someone comment on mine too, please?

F1 & F2 are two views of the front.

R is the rear with flash.

RNF is rear, no flash.
 
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