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OK "experts" I have a question about heat, I am now running around 250 oil temp and I was running about 230 here is what the difference is.

Was
96" Stage I with TMAT, Python Staggers, Syn oil Autolight 4164's ran about 225-235 a week ago in same heat

Now
103 BB TMAT, SE Flatops 10.3:1, heads P&Ped, Andrews 31 cams, Dyno oil (Break in) now running 245-260 about same temp maybe a degree or 2 cooler (101)

Is this just break in heat + dyno oil?? I think I remember my scoot running warmer when it was newer but just wanted some reassurance. It runs GREAT less valve train noise stretches my arms even with the stock gears back in it

Map has same AFR's set as what I was running but it is a 103 map.
 

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my 103 with an oil cooler will still hit 250 on a hot day. On another subject I see you rmoved your 30 toother ,I have the 30 tooth sprocket in mine also (love it but hope its not messing up anything !!!!)
 

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After looking at all the info out there and the fact that the Moco Has been useing comp sprockets since the 50's I decided to remove it and wait for a better solution...if they ever come out with the comp 30 tooth im there...I was surprised at how much vibration I was feeling from the 30 tooth once I put the stocker back on. I can't believe how much better this thing runs.. Oh and I went to a V&H BR 2to1 pipe also and I am wondering if the increase in back pressure may be causing some of the heat as well.

Thanks for the feedback
 

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Do the math, first !!
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the 31 cam + 10.3 cr + 103 ci = 191 ccp, stock is about 180 ccp. not a big deal,but #1 small factor. break in + break in oil, #2. less meat in jugs, 96 to 103, a little less ability to cool, not much, but still #3. i would change oil after a few hundred miles, run that to 1000 miles, than back to whatever syn oil you were using. i've got 103 + 31 cam also but 180ccp, less cr, + good jag oil cooler helps alot. the HD oil filter adapter for HD cooler i was not impressed with at all. Jag gives much better oil presure, and more consistant temps.also, depending where your AFR is could be #4 too lean = heat. i'm no expert, but thats JMHO. good luck. the tall gearing in the primary and final drive with 2.79 does not help. the engine is allways working harder than it should have to. i hope this all helps you a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thedriver said:
the 31 cam + 10.3 cr + 103 ci = 191 ccp, stock is about 180 ccp. not a big deal,but #1 small factor. break in + break in oil, #2. less meat in jugs, 96 to 103, a little less ability to cool, not much, but still #3. i would change oil after a few hundred miles, run that to 1000 miles, than back to whatever syn oil you were using. i've got 103 + 31 cam also but 180ccp, less cr, + good jag oil cooler helps alot. the HD oil filter adapter for HD cooler i was not impressed with at all. Jag gives much better oil presure, and more consistant temps.also, depending where your AFR is could be #4 too lean = heat. i'm no expert, but thats JMHO. good luck. the tall gearing in the primary and final drive with 2.79 does not help. the engine is allways working harder than it should have to. i hope this all helps you a bit.
Sure does, always helps to hear what your thinkin from others that have the same setup...Yah I have to agree about the HD cooler..The adapter seem to work "ok" its the dame cooler being in the middle of the down tubes it gets very little airflow at speed..and I just dont like the JAG cooler hanging to the side...may look into others
 

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Iron Butt, SS2000
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Things that make you go Hmmm

It takes "x" hp to push your bike down the road at 70 mph. If you build the motor it still takes "x" HP to push it down the road at 70 mph.

My uneducated opinion is that the heat produced before or after modifications is more related to the tuning job than the few cubic inches you may have added. It seems entirely possible for a lean 88 to run hotter than a rich 103.

Now if you whack the sh1t out of the throttle every time you get a chance then I'd say the more powerful engine will produce more heat every time.

JMHO:hmmm:
 

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Every new build I've had done has run a little hot in the beginning. I've always assumed it was heat generated by friction while things are mating, wearing down/settling in. I could be wrong but each of those builds, about 4 of them, have all cooled down after 750-1000 miles.

As an example, my '07 FLHX with Stage I, when new, ran oil temps sometimes as high as 265F. After 1000 miles it rarely got above 235F. Even my latest build, a 107" on the same FLHX, ran about 20 deg hotter for the first 600 miles than it does now. And this build has been the mildest, heat wise, of all I've had done.

I also run an oil cooler on both my bikes, but I know some feel they are unnecessary. I live in South Florida where it's hot most of the time and it just makes me feel better.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jerry34208 said:
It takes "x" hp to push your bike down the road at 70 mph. If you build the motor it still takes "x" HP to push it down the road at 70 mph.

JMHO:hmmm:
Well I did regear went from 3.15 back to 2.79:wacko:

jerry34208 said:
Now if you whack the sh1t out of the throttle every time you get a chance then I'd say the more powerful engine will produce more heat every time.
There is some of that going on I have to admit:wootdnc:
 

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AZFXSTB said:
OK "experts" I have a question about heat, I am now running around 250 oil temp and I was running about 230 here is what the difference is.

Was
96" Stage I with TMAT, Python Staggers, Syn oil Autolight 4164's ran about 225-235 a week ago in same heat

Now
103 BB TMAT, SE Flatops 10.3:1, heads P&Ped, Andrews 31 cams, Dyno oil (Break in) now running 245-260 about same temp maybe a degree or 2 cooler (101)

Is this just break in heat + dyno oil?? I think I remember my scoot running warmer when it was newer but just wanted some reassurance. It runs GREAT less valve train noise stretches my arms even with the stock gears back in it

Map has same AFR's set as what I was running but it is a 103 map.
My heads have gotten much hotter (while idling) when I went from 88" to 103", however my oil is cooler. On the hottest day this year (104 degrees) I got to 250 degees on oil during breakin. I now run about 230 when it is hot out and typically 215. I've got about 2500 on my build and consider it broke in.

My head temp typically runs 250 to 289 depending on temp. outside and movement. While sitting still, it gets into the 300s, which is hotter than my 88 got.

Since you have the TMAX, when you where setting your IAC warmup, how fast did you head temp get to 289?

Regards,
NC
 

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Discussion Starter #10
nc-renegade said:
My heads have gotten much hotter (while idling) when I went from 88" to 103", however my oil is cooler. On the hottest day this year (104 degrees) I got to 250 degees on oil during breakin. I now run about 230 when it is hot out and typically 215. I've got about 2500 on my build and consider it broke in.

My head temp typically runs 250 to 289 depending on temp. outside and movement. While sitting still, it gets into the 300s, which is hotter than my 88 got.

Since you have the TMAX, when you where setting your IAC warmup, how fast did you head temp get to 289?

Regards,
NC

taking a WAG about 20% faster than they used to
 

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Iron Butt, SS2000
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AZFXSTB said:
Well I did regear went from 3.15 back to 2.79:wacko:

I don't think that will effect the amount of heat very much if at all. I know the point is if the parts are moving more there is more heat generated. Not arguing that at all. I'm just of the opinion that the heat from friction is negligible compared to the heat from combustion. I guess I am merely saying the heat from combustion is relatively the same in most HD vtwins pushing the same bike at the same speed same rider etc.

Sure, there is a scientifically measurable difference from friction but you'd have to be in a laboratory controlling all other variables before you could accurately determine that.

There are so many variables that effect the engine and oil temp from one day to the next(temp, humidity, barometric pressure, wind, hills, goodies carried on board, quality of fuel, tire pressure yadda yadda) it is difficult to know for sure exactly what is causing the differences you see day to day. Certainly, changes to the motor cause changes in temps.

I still think the manner in which you ride and the tune job have the biggest impact, even more than the size of the motor.



There is some of that going on I have to admit:wootdnc:
10-4 that !!! Whack it GOOD!
 

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AZFXSTB said:
Sure does, always helps to hear what your thinkin from others that have the same setup...Yah I have to agree about the HD cooler..The adapter seem to work "ok" its the dame cooler being in the middle of the down tubes it gets very little airflow at speed..and I just dont like the JAG cooler hanging to the side...may look into others
The cooler in the middle will just take the air cooling to the front head, this is not a good place for it. It is best to the side, other than that, put it sideways down low or better yet, as high as as it can go sideways. All instructions say not to put in in the middle.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
route66paul said:
All instructions say not to put in in the middle.
Not true, the instructions for the Softail have it right in the middle of the down tubes. Now I agree it is a terrible location but thats where they say it goes in the Moco instructions. Middle being the top of the cooler in about even with the front exhaust pipe
 
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