95" with SE-204 build questions

7385 Views 31 Replies 9 Participants Last post by HIPPO, Dec 22, 2005

Jef

Discussion Starter · Dec 12, 2005

Hello,
I'm considering a 95" build with the stock heads, SE flat top pistons and a SE-204 cam on my 2000 FXDX (carburetor).
I really need some help with my questions regarding the optimal build and use of this combination.

I really like the all around characteristics of the stock 88", wide power band and smooth just want more power preferably
all over the band but would prefer less HP than looose the torque low down.

On this forum I read that the 204 is also used on heavier machines (RK etc)
I ride my FXDX most of the time 2-up, we are both around 150lbs ; total 300 lbs.
- Is this considered to heavy for this particular cam ?
Driving style is mostly conservative 1900 - 3500RPM , but occasionaly fast using the whole RPM range.

What is the optimum compression for the SE-204 and what does this mean in practical terms ?
According to the HD catalog the compression would be 9.4 :1 using a cometic 0.30 gasket this would rise to 9.7 : 1
if I'm not mistaken.
Higher compression option (9.7) means:
- more/less HP ?
- more/less heat ?
- harder/easier to start ?
- more/less torque low down ?
- Is it possible that the Torque low down would be less than the stock 88" ?
- What about detonation ?

- Is there a dyno graph of this combination available, I looked everywhere and don't find this basic
configuration.

- Would I need an oil cooler or can this wait for later ?

- Is the S&S IST ignition a good choice or overkill for this mild build ?
- What would be the recommended SE ignition ?

Some people mention that the SE-204 creates 'couching' effects in the carb below 2000 RPM.
- Apparantly this is a side effect of the timing of this cam. Does this affect riding ?

Is there someting wrong with the SE-211 Stage II build in the Harley catalogue, SE211 with
HTCC head, HTCC pistons and HTCC intake ? From the dyno graph I would say
this is a smooth combination, nevertheless I don't see many people using it.

Lots of questions I know, thanks upfront for your using time.

Jef

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Cliff

· #2 · Dec 13, 2005 (Edited)

OK, Jef, I'll jump in. I really like the SE 204, and I am currently running a 204 with 95", SE 16 guage pipes and SE Heads. The exhaust note is low and the cam has a very nice mild lope. Don't know what couching is. If I had to go again, I would go with gear drives.

Higher compression is good, and it adds power at midrange. 9.7 seems ideal with you heads and cams, Oil cooler is great and should be added.

Jef

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 13, 2005

Thanks for your reply Cliff,
How does the bike feel around 2000RPM ? And is the acceleration gradualy from there on or is there a sudden rise of torque

Regarding 'Couching', are there any noise coming from the carburetor below 2000 RPM.

jef

Cliff

· #4 · Dec 13, 2005

Jef, Engine runs smooth at all speeds. Acceration is very fast with out sudden change. It buzzes quickly and smoothly to red line. I have EFI so don't know about carb characteristics. Be sure and consider head work or SE heads with your build since that makes a big difference. I've spent a lot of time tuning which is so important to getting the most out of your build. Good luck.

Cliff

rmmccon

· #5 · Dec 13, 2005

Jef said:
Is there someting wrong with the SE-211 Stage II build in the Harley catalogue, SE211 with HTCC head, HTCC pistons and HTCC intake ? From the dyno graph I would say this is a smooth combination, nevertheless I don't see many people using it.
Jef

I use this combination. I really like the SE-211 Cam, 44MM Carb with the HTCC Heads/Intake/Pistons in my 2003 FXDXT.

Jef

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 13, 2005

Clif, thanks for the feedback - it sounds very good and will vconsider the SE heads but that might lead to a cam change ;-), thanks.

rmmccon, do you have detontation problems ? And how is the torque low down ? 2-up ?

Jef

rmmccon

· #7 · Dec 14, 2005

Jef,

I had a little pinging starting off under certain conditions until I changed to a colder plug. Since then no pinging, even in 110 degree summer time temperatures. I really feel the torque from 2000 rpm on up. The SE 211 isn't a low rpm torque cam, but more of a midrange cam. It works fine for 2-Up.

-Mark (rmmccon)

hdfat2002

· #8 · Dec 14, 2005

Spark Plug Choices

rmmccon said:
Jef,

I had a little pinging starting off under certain conditions until I changed to a colder plug. Since then no pinging, even in 110 degree summer time temperatures. I really feel the torque from 2000 rpm on up. The SE 211 isn't a low rpm torque cam, but more of a midrange cam. It works fine for 2-Up.

-Mark (rmmccon)

Mark,

I have been wondering about spark plug choices for TCs for some time. I have tried standard and one-range-colder Autolites and Champions. What are you using?

-Fat

ViennaHog

· #9 · Dec 14, 2005 (Edited)

Jef said:
Hello,
I'm considering a 95" build with the stock heads, SE flat top pistons and a SE-204 cam on my 2000 FXDX (carburetor).
I really need some help with my questions regarding the optimal build and use of this combination.

I really like the all around characteristics of the stock 88", wide power band and smooth just want more power preferably
all over the band but would prefer less HP than looose the torque low down.

On this forum I read that the 204 is also used on heavier machines (RK etc)
I ride my FXDX most of the time 2-up, we are both around 150lbs ; total 300 lbs.
- Is this considered to heavy for this particular cam ? NO
Driving style is mostly conservative 1900 - 3500RPM , but occasionaly fast using the whole RPM range.

What is the optimum compression for the SE-204 and what does this mean in practical terms ? 9.5-10 as far as I know
According to the HD catalog the compression would be 9.4 :1 using a cometic 0.30 gasket this would rise to 9.7 : 1
if I'm not mistaken.
Higher compression option (9.7) means:
- more/less HP ?
- more/less heat ?
- harder/easier to start ?
- more/less torque low down ?
- Is it possible that the Torque low down would be less than the stock 88" ? No with the raised compression
- What about detonation ? Not an issue with premium gas (min 95 octane in Europe)and igntion module with 5 deg retards
- Is there a dyno graph of this combination available, I looked everywhere and don't find this basic
configuration. Don't know
- Would I need an oil cooler or can this wait for later ? Not in the mild climate

- Is the S&S IST ignition a good choice or overkill for this mild build ?
- What would be the recommended SE ignition ? module with 5 deg retard

Some people mention that the SE-204 creates 'couching' effects in the carb below 2000 RPM.
- Apparantly this is a side effect of the timing of this cam. Does this affect riding ? don't know what you mean, you need to rejet the carb anyway

Is there someting wrong with the SE-211 Stage II build in the Harley catalogue, SE211 with
HTCC head, HTCC pistons and HTCC intake ? From the dyno graph I would say
this is a smooth combination, nevertheless I don't see many people using it.
Lots of people use it as far as I know, more difficult to tune. Avoid the HTTC ported heads when you don't have an experienced builder to do the building/tuningLots of questions I know, thanks upfront for your using time.

Jef

IST ignition is nice to have, but expensive. I have one on my build, don't see a big advantage over the SE adjustable map igntion. I ran into issues here in Austria as it is very difficult to find an experienced HD tuner that runs a Dynojet 250i.That's the main reason that I recommend to keep it simple. Once you get in the cam chest, make sure that you replace the inner cam bearing with Torrington B148, put in the updated oil pump and cam plate as an insurance. Think about adjustable pushrods if you like playing with cams........ Your combo with SE Performance heads and comp below 10 should do well. What exhaust are you going to use?

rmmccon

· #10 · Dec 14, 2005

Fat,

I am using NGK's. DCPR7E is the equivalent to the stock plug and I am now using a DCPR8E (one step colder).

-Mark

sgpatter

· #11 · Dec 14, 2005

Cliff said:
OK, Jef, I'll jump in. I really like the SE 204, and I am currently running a 204 with 95", SE 16 guage pipes and SE Heads. The exhaust note is low and the cam has a very nice mild lope. Don't know what couching is. If I had to go again, I would go with gear drives.

Higher compression is good, and it adds power at midrange. 9.7 seems ideal with you heads and cams, Oil cooler is great and should be added.

Any idea what your colding cranking compression is? Do you use compression releases with that?

Thanks, Steve

Jef

Discussion Starter · #12 · Dec 14, 2005

Viennahog,
thank you very much for the detailed reply.

I will start with the SEII slip-on's, but a SE tuneable 2-1, Cycle shacks and a pair of Krhromewerks are on my shelfs - so I can change and optimize if I want to.

I wonder about the SE Performance Heads, they will undoubtely increase my HP and provide me with the opportunity to install compression releases but I'm pretty sure that the stocks heads will deliver more torque low down and I save about 1350$.
And changing the heads later is not that difficult either.
Allthough I could check Ebay.

Jef

Cliff

· #13 · Dec 15, 2005

Steve, In response to your question re cranking pressure and comp releases. I have not done any comp checks. I do use comp releases and the engine does rotate easier, but the engine also starts with out the releases engaged (a little slower and more laborous). I have not had any problem with pinging even using stock cams (before installing SE204's). I do live at over 5,000 ft altitude with less chance of pinging or problems with compression (of course, I also run slower than at a lower altitude). I did find that Harley flashes were lean, and this was not noticable with out checking the AFR. The best investment I have made for tuning has been a AFR guage (I use the WEGO II). I am not advocating that brand, but it is not really possible to tune accurately by sound, spark plug color, engine smoothness, etc. You can think you bike is running great, but put an AFR meter on and you would be suprised. By the way the AFR measures work with carb bikes as well as EFI.

Cliff

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Cliff

· #14 · Dec 15, 2005

Steve, In response to your question re cranking pressure and comp releases. I have not done any comp checks. I do use comp releases and the engine does rotate easier, but the engine also starts with out the releases engaged (a little slower and more laborous). I have not had any problem with pinging even using stock cams (before installing SE204's). I do live at over 5,000 ft altitude with less chance of pinging or problems with compression (of course, I also run slower than at a lower altitude). I did find that Harley flashes were lean, and this was not noticable with out checking the AFR. The best investment I have made for tuning has been a AFR guage (I use the WEGO II). I am not advocating that brand, but it is not really possible to tune accurately by sound, spark plug color, engine smoothness, etc. You can think you bike is running great, but put an AFR meter on and you would be suprised. By the way the AFR measures work with carb bikes as well as EFI.

Cliff

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dcfatboy

· #15 · Dec 15, 2005

Jef said:
Some people mention that the SE-204 creates 'couching' effects in the carb below 2000 RPM.

Jef, might you mean coughing?

ViennaHog

· #16 · Dec 15, 2005

Jef said:
Viennahog,
thank you very much for the detailed reply.

I will start with the SEII slip-on's, but a SE tuneable 2-1, Cycle shacks and a pair of Krhromewerks are on my shelfs - so I can change and optimize if I want to.

I wonder about the SE Performance Heads, they will undoubtely increase my HP and provide me with the opportunity to install compression releases but I'm pretty sure that the stocks heads will deliver more torque low down and I save about 1350$.
And changing the heads later is not that difficult either.
Allthough I could check Ebay.

Jef

Check Zanotti Motors Harley for your part needs. SE Performance heads
$600, they are at your door with taxes, custom duties and freigt for under $900

Jef

Discussion Starter · #17 · Dec 15, 2005

Hi DCfatboy, yes 'coughing' is what I meant - sorry for the confusion

ViennaHog, thanks I will check it out.

Jef

Jef

Discussion Starter · #18 · Dec 17, 2005

Based on the feedback, the numerous curves I have been looking at and applied logic I would think the following combination should work fine:

SE HTTC Heads
Flattop pistons
SE-204

This combination would give a 10:1 compression ratio, around the maximum for a 204, good for the HP and mpg figures and the reduced exit valve size should help the torque low down.
Compression releases to make it easy on the battery and starter.

Do I miss something obvious ? All comments welcomed.

Jef

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HIPPO

· #19 · Dec 17, 2005

Yup,

HTCC heads and flat tops = no squish
204 and 10 CR if this is correct = ping ping ping

If you are going to use dealer stuff, you almost had it with the SE performance heads, flat tops and 211's.

Forget the HD ignition boxes, for a few bucks more you can get a far superior HQ (DTT) ignition box.

Jef

Discussion Starter · #20 · Dec 17, 2005

Hello Hippo,
I gave the wrong figures (the CR 10 is with SE Performance Heads).

The HTCC with flat pistons would give CR 9.4.

I'm trying to find a combination of 'dealer stuff' that would bring the CR to around 9.5 AND that has a better breathing than the stock head.
(stock with flattops is also 9.4).

Maybe I should start looking into the possibilty of finding a stock head on Ebay, have it send straight to a porter and from there to my place.

Jef

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