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(hp x 5252) / rpm = :)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hoping to get some feedback here as I have spent the better part of three days reading different responses, opinions, success stories and some disappointments from the gang here on folks moving the TC88 to a 95.

I have read Stage I gets you the best bang for the buck vs. Stage II, the SE 203 cam is the way to go for a bagger yet 5 threads later read that the Andrews 37G is a better choice....and what about the SE 204 perhaps, one should port the heads, don't port the heads, flat tops, compression etc............aaahhhhh!!!!

That all said, I have the 05 Ultra and have installed PCIII, Rinehart True Duals and the Ness Big Sucker.....not a bad start but obviously looking for a bit of boost here (I know....a bagger would not be one's first choice for adrenaline) and thus the message here.

I bought the bike new in April 2005 and it has 4k miles on it.....I am late 30's and weigh about 180lbs.....occasional passenger is the lady friends or my 8 year son.....ride around Houston, Austin, Dallas etc....

I would like to know what $1500.00 would get me and what $3,500.00 would get me here and will I truly know the difference in the two besides the AMEX bill at the end of the month. I can spend either amount but want to be able to depend on the bike starting/running in a dependable fashion EVERY time I get on it..... (opened a can of worms there perhaps)...

If you were to take this bike and the two price tags above, what would you do with it?

Your thoughts please....:beer:
 

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AXTELLERATOR
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441 Posts
When I bought my dresser ,in 2002, I had the dealer put in the Stage 2 kit before the engine was even fired. The whole thing cost me $3000. I'm now spending $3000 more to have my bike run like a Stage 2 should. What I learned was: 1) I should have found a good shop that would ask me exactly how I would ride and then put in the correct cam 2) I should of had my cylinders bored to 95" instead of buying new ones 3) Gear drive would have been the way to go 4)Just cause it's a dealer does not mean they do good work - they initially put my cams in one tooth retarded. My final numbers from the dealer were 82hp 94tq. Those #'s are NOT worth $3000. Since then I have spent another $1500 (PowerCommander and Sampson 2 into 2) which brought my numbers to 85hp/101tq. Better, but not great. I'm now having gear drive put in with Woods Tw-6hg and heads modified. So, educate yourself and know exactly what you want, cause power ain't cheap. Good Luck!

95"
Woods Tw-6hg
S&S Reed
10.5 forged pistons
roller rockers
HD Perfomance Heads w/ S&S springs/Comp rel./ported
Sampson 2 into 2 exhaust (may change to 2 into 1 later)
PowerCommander
 

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?????
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I used to own a 05 FLHTCI with the Stage 1 and then took it to Stag 2 and 203 cams. The Stage 2 with new SE jugs and all was only $1,500 out the door. They took a stage 2 kit and credited me back for the air filter, because I already had the SE air filter. The stage 2 was a nice little step up from stage 1 which kept my warranty intact. The biggest question is what do you expect from the build. I've been going though this very process, I have a 06 Ultra now which I want to do a build on. I don't want warranty issues so I'm going to ride it another season. I've gone from wanting ported heads with 95" and 37g cams to non-ported heads with 26g cams, to my current dirrection of 95" non-ported heads and 204 cams. What got me looking at the 204 cams was when I talked with the service mgr at the dealer. He ask me why I wanted gear drive, I said to get ride of the chain. He told me he would be more than happy to put anything in that I wanted, it was my money. He had a Ultra in the back with 70k on it with the original tensioners that were still in pretty good shape. He told me I was welcome to go back and talk with the mechanics, they just haven't seen any tensioner issues. This could be because I live in a colder area that doesn't see the heat other areas do, it could be that the majority of their customers don't beat the crud out of their bikes. Its anyones guess, so now I'm leaning towards the 204 cams and thinking about what else I can do with the extra $500 bucks I would have spent on gear drive.
 

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The Alter Ego
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5,580 Posts
chieber00 said:
(I know....a bagger would not be one's first choice for adrenaline)
Off the bat..anyone who tells you this has no idea what kind of a chubby a bagger can give a fella due to looks, ride and get out of the way power.

Now..this is just the way I'm going. So don't shoot me down.
1. Go big bore. There's no replacement for displacement. And the 103ci does not have me convienced that it's worth the money juuuuust yet.
2. If you don't care about the warranty and you got the loot. Go straight to stage III. Cams and Heads. Why waste the labor redoing it, right?
3. CAMS..I hear the SE203 is a joke. My dealer even smirked when he asked me if I wanted it. I said "no". I'll wait for the Andrews gear driven when my warranty is over.
4. Heads...at the same time I get CAMS. I'm getting ported heads. Labor savings, pure and simple.

As far as choosing what kind of CAM. Gonna have to keep reading threads and looking at dyno slips as I did. It's all in what you want. Me....I'm torque crazy(roll on throttle without down shifting, with wife on back, bags loaded, and going up a mountain:D) and really don't care much about horsepower (over 110mph ability). Hope I helped and didn't hurt. :wavey:
 

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msocko3 said:
I used to own a 05 FLHTCI with the Stage 1 and then took it to Stag 2 and 203 cams. The Stage 2 with new SE jugs and all was only $1,500 out the door. They took a stage 2 kit and credited me back for the air filter, because I already had the SE air filter. The stage 2 was a nice little step up from stage 1 which kept my warranty intact. The biggest question is what do you expect from the build. I've been going though this very process, I have a 06 Ultra now which I want to do a build on. I don't want warranty issues so I'm going to ride it another season. I've gone from wanting ported heads with 95" and 37g cams to non-ported heads with 26g cams, to my current dirrection of 95" non-ported heads and 204 cams. What got me looking at the 204 cams was when I talked with the service mgr at the dealer. He ask me why I wanted gear drive, I said to get ride of the chain. He told me he would be more than happy to put anything in that I wanted, it was my money. He had a Ultra in the back with 70k on it with the original tensioners that were still in pretty good shape. He told me I was welcome to go back and talk with the mechanics, they just haven't seen any tensioner issues. This could be because I live in a colder area that doesn't see the heat other areas do, it could be that the majority of their customers don't beat the crud out of their bikes. Its anyones guess, so now I'm leaning towards the 204 cams and thinking about what else I can do with the extra $500 bucks I would have spent on gear drive.
This is for msock03: In the year 2002, the stage 2 package included S.E. Performance Heads and 10.5 compression forged pistons, which would drive the cost up from $1500 to $3000 very easily. I'm quessing my build would be called a stage 3 now, but not back in 2002. My stage 2 build ,at that time, VOIDED the warranty from day 1. Just thought I'd let you know why the price difference between your stage 2 and mine.
 

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relxn88 said:
This is for msock03: In the year 2002, the stage 2 package included S.E. Performance Heads and 10.5 compression forged pistons, which would drive the cost up from $1500 to $3000 very easily. I'm quessing my build would be called a stage 3 now, but not back in 2002. My stage 2 build ,at that time, VOIDED the warranty from day 1. Just thought I'd let you know why the price difference between your stage 2 and mine.
Yep that would make a big difference in price. The stage 2 these days only comes with jugs, flat top pistons, cams and SE air filter.
 

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350 Big Boyz Heads/ CC'd&Decked
550 Andrews 37g cams and gears
100 Bore your cylinders
100 SE Flat top pistons
100 Gaskets
100 Misc.
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1300 Not bad, you already have the exhaust and PCIII.
250 dyno tune custom map
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1550 Total if you do your own work
600 Labor to have it built
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$2150 out the door including labor and dyno tune

Definate jaw dropping power and arm stretching strength, I promise you'll be pleasantly surprised at how that bagger will perform! You won't have to get outta anybodys way, trust me!

Oh yeah, couple hundred for that bright new tailight so your buddies can keep track of how far up ahead you are!!!
 

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(hp x 5252) / rpm = :)
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49 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Got some pricing / part #'s from the local HD wrench here and wanted to share:

Part number: 29492-99C $809.95

Credit back for air cleaner (since I have the Ness Big Sucker) $139.95

$825 in labor

Total = $1495.00

Now take additional 10% off that for the "March Madness Sale" as he called it....

New Total = $1345.00 + tax

Note that the part number is not for an 05 Ultra Classic from what he told me but this kit will work as the only diff is the air cleaner which I am giving back for credit anyway....

For the record, I am not the type to do the labor myself. I am very good at taking things apart...it's the putting it all back together part that can be a challenge...and the frustration.....and then the expense of having someone else take over.....:)

Your thoughts please.....
 

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If you're looking for a consensus, you'll never get it here! That's not bad, just lots of different experiences and opinions.

Here's what I'm doing: I found a local indy shop that I trust. I've stopped in on slow days and talked to them about my bike, my riding style and what I want out of motor upgrades. We've had good discussions about tensioners, gear drives, cleaning up heads vs full port jobs. He's taken time to explain the pros and cons of various options and given me estimates on my best options. The prices aren't part of a 'March Madness' special, they're just his prices.

Of course, my bike is not under warranty and I know myself well enough to know that if I tried to do the work I'd break something.
 

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The Alter Ego
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Sinker said:
Of course, my bike is not under warranty and I know myself well enough to know that if I tried to do the work I'd break something.
Whew! I thought I was the only one in the forum that was that way. I am mechnically inclined but this is one heck of an investment to just be tinkering around the house on....:nope:
 

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chieber00 said:
Got some pricing / part #'s from the local HD wrench here and wanted to share:

Part number: 29492-99C $809.95

Credit back for air cleaner (since I have the Ness Big Sucker) $139.95

$825 in labor

Total = $1495.00

Now take additional 10% off that for the "March Madness Sale" as he called it....

New Total = $1345.00 + tax

Note that the part number is not for an 05 Ultra Classic from what he told me but this kit will work as the only diff is the air cleaner which I am giving back for credit anyway....

For the record, I am not the type to do the labor myself. I am very good at taking things apart...it's the putting it all back together part that can be a challenge...and the frustration.....and then the expense of having someone else take over.....:)

Your thoughts please.....
That's with 203 cams, not gear cams and NO head work. also no dyno time in that estimate, you will definately need a custom map, they'll probably also insist that you also buy a SE download for the efi
Use the 37b's instead of 37g's and find a indy to do the work and you'll be in the same price range for a far superior better build!
Most around here who have done this mod have been dissappointed to say the least. Spend a couple hundred more and get a real engine build!
Just my two cents....
 

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Firstly, you can't trust the dealer or his representative to give you an honest answer, because an honest answer isn't in thier best interest.
Gear driven cams, probably the andrews 37g are your best bet.
Head work, mild like a stage one is well worth the money.
It's only a little bit more than a 95" and you can have a 98".
This set up is proven and reliable. There are less with it but that is because it hasn't been around as long.
Do this and you will always be smilin'.
 

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Rock_Steady said:
Whew! I thought I was the only one in the forum that was that way. I am mechnically inclined but this is one heck of an investment to just be tinkering around the house on....:nope:
Your not alone, I change oil and wash & wax maybe bolt on a couple pieces of chrome. The rest the dealer can do, they did fine with the Stage 2 build on my 05 and I'm sure they'll do good with the build on my 06. I can wrench on cars, I can tune a blown alcohol dragster. I draw the line at my bike, just don't want to screw it up.
 

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MWALTON said:
Firstly, you can't trust the dealer or his representative to give you an honest answer, because an honest answer isn't in thier best interest.
I must have found that rare dealer. The service mgr at the dealer I do buisness with said they would be more than happy to do anything I would like. I've tossed some ideas around with the service mgr and my choice of build is getting closer to being firmed up.
 

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The Alter Ego
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msocko3 said:
I must have found that rare dealer. The service mgr at the dealer I do buisness with said they would be more than happy to do anything I would like. I've tossed some ideas around with the service mgr and my choice of build is getting closer to being firmed up.
Is that the Erie dealer Mscoko3? I get the same treatment from the Jamestown dealer in NY. The SERT is suppose to automatically get the Warranty voided. But they are standing behind the bike for two years as long as I bring it to them. That's a no brainer in my book.
 

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msocko3 said:
I must have found that rare dealer. The service mgr at the dealer I do buisness with said they would be more than happy to do anything I would like. I've tossed some ideas around with the service mgr and my choice of build is getting closer to being firmed up.
I think you will be satisfied with the 204 cams. We have exchanged information on this in another thread, maybe 8* vs 25* injector thread. Anyway, I have a 2006 ULTRA, put about 300 miles on it as stock (waiting to get into the dealer). Have about 700 miles on this build: 95" BB had my cylnders bored locally, 1550 flat top pistons,204 cams, stock heads, SE A/C, SE race fueler (maybe a mistake), V&H true duals, V&H oval mufflers. It performs fine, good low to mid range torque, accelerates from 65 to 90 mph quickly. The cost of parts, cylnder bore, gaskets, clutch diaphragm spring, etc. was about the same as the big bore kit with the 203 cams, about $850.

The service manager at the dealership was very helpful, explaining the whys & why nots, he never pushed just H-D parts. I was thinking high performance heads & high compression pistons, but he explained too much $$$$ & I woud not get any more performance until high RPM, which would not match what I was wanting to achieve with my riding style, mostly 2 up highway cruising. The set up I have does great around town, stop light to stop light & most excellent on the highway.
Now if only the new injectors will smooth everything out I will be COMPLETELY SATISFIED. The 25* are being installed tomorrow.
 

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On my 05 Ultra, I had the heads cleaned up, went to the 95 and 204 cams. I had the sert and slip ons. Also dyno time for the map. The costs were reasonable and I am very happy with the way the bike runs. Two friends were impressed enough to do the same builds on there RK's.

Regards, SSC
 

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I can tell you what didn't work for me....

For $1500, you should be able to get a 95" kit, cams, etc...
For $3500, I think you'll probably need to add more money to get to 103" or 107". (107" builds using Axtell parts are supposed to be fantastic motors, both for torque or high revving applications, but plan on spending more money.)

The build that didn't work for me in my '06 Ultra was 95", SE Performance Heads, 211 cams, Supertrapp exhaust, SERT. The motor pinged and performance was lousy until you got to 3000 rpm.

Over the winter, I had the dealer put the stock heads back on, put 203 cams in it, and retune the bike. The dyno chart looks great, lots of torque that builds early from 2000 rpm. I got to ride the bike on saturday and am much happier with this build. No pinging, power is where I want it.

Keeping in mind that the air-cooled V-twin isn't exactly motorcycling's best performance platform, I'm fairly well convinved that sometimes less is more. Doesn't mean I would consider a Jim's 120 or S&S 124, but not in a bagger I plan to drive all over the place.
 

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Rock_Steady said:
Is that the Erie dealer Mscoko3? I get the same treatment from the Jamestown dealer in NY. The SERT is suppose to automatically get the Warranty voided. But they are standing behind the bike for two years as long as I bring it to them. That's a no brainer in my book.
Yep Erie is the dealer, I have the SERT with no warranty issues also.
 
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