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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #1
OK I gotta do it, I know Harley has us by the short hairs when it comes to improvement...change one thing gotta change another because, "well the jugs are off you might as well cam it" kinda thing.

So here goes has anybody just done the jugs and pistons and been happy with it?? Realiable, more performance, less expensive?

I ask because I see all the questions, mine included that go from one stage to the next...biggers better right. But is it? if you're looking for more torque, two up riding and still get good gas mileage and realiability.. let the flaming begin...thanks in advance for the comments, CSM-H
 

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Average Dude
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It would be a waste of time and money to do just the jugs. You won't notice any appreciable gain in performance.You will be disappointed. You can do a decent upgrade for about a grand. Bored stock jugs, SE flattop pistons, BigBoyz porting, gear drive cam change.
Think about it.
 

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No cam 95"

Joe (www.joescyclerepair.com) and us have joked around about doing a no-cam change, 95", with our heads, pipe, tuned.
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #5
95" kit no cam...

merc1100sc said:
iF $$ is tight, i think u'd be better off throwing a bolt-in cam in your bike than just the big bore.
merc1100sc and others and there you have it. I asked this question of three different dealers in the Washington DC area and basically got three different answers. The "dyno" chart in the HD parts book (at least when I look at it) shows the most bang for the buck is just the Jugs and pistons kit...roughly 12 HP and 18 Ft lbs of torque for $650 not including install......that's a pretty good bang in my book....comments??? CSM-H
 

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Average Dude
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Well, if thats what you want to do......
Bored stock jugs....$150.00
SE Flattop pistons....$110.00

If you have the heads off....why not port them....Bigboyz.....$399.00
 

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Fastest Chkn N the South!
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Hillsidecycle.com said:
Joe (www.joescyclerepair.com) and us have joked around about doing a no-cam change, 95", with our heads, pipe, tuned.
That would be interesting.....weird, but interesting! Do it!!!
 

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If you're gonna take the top end apart, throw a cam in there quick. It will save you the $ for quick install pushrods or taking it apart again to do the cam downthe road.

why not just go w/ the infamous moco recommended 42 Mikuni w/ a set of pipes. I hear that setup screams....... at least their dyno sheet says so..:whatever:
 

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Ghetto Blaster
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CSM-H said:
merc1100sc and others and there you have it. I asked this question of three different dealers in the Washington DC area and basically got three different answers. The "dyno" chart in the HD parts book (at least when I look at it) shows the most bang for the buck is just the Jugs and pistons kit...roughly 12 HP and 18 Ft lbs of torque for $650 not including install......that's a pretty good bang in my book....comments??? CSM-H
There's your FIRST problem....talking to a parts jockey at a HD Dealer.
A few years ago, i had a bone stock 80 ci Heritage. Pathetic power output...a whopping 43 HP!!! Had a factory HD crossover dual exhaust. I took the baffles out & re-jetted...re-dynoed 49 hp. Later, had a CAM put in...re-dynoed @ 65 hp and 68 tq. Same displacement, just lost the crappy smog cam.
Bottom line is that HD cams these things down to meet emissions. You're doing yourself a HUGE disservice by even thinking this, let alone doing it. :thumbsdn:
The cams will wake the engine up, and in conjunction with the things Yankee Bob says you will see great performance. Do it right ONCE, and cry once. Otherwise you'll be doing it later at a added cost. Write the check.
Oh yeah...most HD dealers don't have the practical experience in doing the "whole package" as a lot of the parts aren't available anymore...they just want to sell you a big bore kit. Talk to some of the guru's around here...like Doc, Hillside, HDWrench or Springer. These folks do this all day long. You will be much happier. :thumbsup:
 

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OUCH! That hurt
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"Joe (www.joescyclerepair.com) and us have joked around about doing a no-cam change, 95", with our heads, pipe, tuned."
When the Evo's first came out your choices were limited. I did that very thing & didn't change cams out for a couple years. I then put in a cam sold by Gordon Kateley [anybody remember those?] and ran that cam for more than 10 years.
 

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"Jane you ignorant slut!"
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I believe the Dyno sheet that you are refering to is comparing Stock to 95" Stage I. The Stage I alone will count for most of that hp gain. Then a small amount for the piston increase.

Do you already have the stage I (air cleaner, pipes and fuel controller)?

If not, you'll need to add the costs for these plus the costs of having it tuned.
 

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Premium Member
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You could go with a cam like the RR525g or the Andrews 54 chain, pull a s**t
load of heat out, have 85 hp, 90 torque on 88", 90 torque,98 hp on 95" with decent a/c and pipes.
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #13
95" no cam change

ceraaa42, the dyno sheet I was looking at was the 95" kit (cylinders and pistons) vs a stock 88". I have 07 FLHT mufflers (on an 06) and the K&N stock air filter replacement with the Dobeck TFI box...no tune. So maybe the answer is just get a good dyno tune and leave it alone...CSM-H

ceraaa42 said:
I believe the Dyno sheet that you are refering to is comparing Stock to 95" Stage I. The Stage I alone will count for most of that hp gain. Then a small amount for the piston increase.

Do you already have the stage I (air cleaner, pipes and fuel controller)?

If not, you'll need to add the costs for these plus the costs of having it tuned.
 

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95ci without cams??? TRY IT

What is the worst that can happen? He may end up with a $hit load of low end torque and love it!!! He can always go back and cut out his pushrod to install a new cam RIGHT???Nay Say'ers LOL:spank:
 

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Ghetto Blaster
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yeah....you're right...it's only money. Why the big deal against cams anyway? Strictly cost? If 2-300 bucks is gonna break ya...maybe you ought to save your money & wait. That's like buying a front wheel for a bagger and not getting the matching rear 'cause you can't really see it anyway. Sure it'll roll and work but it ain't right. Pay the money....do it right (along with your research ) and as I said before...CRY ONCE! You wont regret it once you're done.
end of rant
Tim
 

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Average Dude
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Not to mention you are buying SE 95" cylinders? Taking YOUR 88 cylinders to a shop to be bored will cost about $150.00. Do the math. I don't know if the price you got from the stealer included pistons or not. But, you could put the money saved into porting or cams.
Don't be a weenie. Do it right. Save your money until you can do it right. Going your approach will only cost you more money in the long run. There are plenty of us here who have done it wrong and paid the price.
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter #17
95" kit no cam change

Fellas, I appreciate all the advice. It's not the money, thats covered....It's the wanting to do it right the first time....What I really need to do is figure out what I want and then find some folks local to me who have done some of this and trade bikes for a ride so I'll have some idea of what I'm getting. By the way my last bike of the 17 I've owned was a Valkyrie (1520cc flat 6) I'm all over power and torque...the Harley is new to me thus all the questions....thanks, CSM-H

YankeeBob said:
Not to mention you are buying SE 95" cylinders? Taking YOUR 88 cylinders to a shop to be bored will cost about $150.00. Do the math. I don't know if the price you got from the stealer included pistons or not. But, you could put the money saved into porting or cams.
Don't be a weenie. Do it right. Save your money until you can do it right. Going your approach will only cost you more money in the long run. There are plenty of us here who have done it wrong and paid the price.
 

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The OTHER White Meat.
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I'm no expert, but spending $'s to turn a 88" motor that doesn't breath into a 95" motor that doesn't breath doesn't make any sense to me.
 

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the first thing you need to identify is..... who is the flat out best tuner in my area and how far am I willing to travel to get it done correctly.

Then, I'm going to echo what some of the guys with experience are saying.....
Do it all at the same time and USE A PROVEN combination of parts. Boring YOUR cylinders by someone that knows what they are doing, an Andrews 37 cam for example(gear rive is prefereable), excellent street ported heads(yours), a known good, proven performance exhaust pipe, a tuning software/hardware and like I said above, a known good tuner.

You might want to read through the thread I started recently in this section by the title..... Cam Selection
 

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hugie03flhr said:
What is the worst that can happen? He may end up with a $hit load of low end torque and love it!!! He can always go back and cut out his pushrod to install a new cam RIGHT???Nay Say'ers LOL:spank:
He will have wasted his money adj pushrods that he would not have need if he did it all at once.
 
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