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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, Ive got a friend who suffered the transmission oil migration issue on his M8 107. It trashed the transmission. I tried to talk him into just getting a new cassette so we could pull the trap, blast out all the metal bits, replace the bearings in the case and shove in the new gearset that comes already mounted on the trap, but he decided to get a 2020 114 complete motor/trans with 4K miles on it to just swap in, since his 107 has high miles and the oil pump shortcomings and the 2020 has all the good updates.
Anyhow, Im just curious- will the motor/trans/primary come off and on as a unit, or do I need to pull the primary, then the motor, then the trans, then install the trans, motor and primary in that order.
I did find this video. Going to be a fun job, but the looks of it. I am very experienced, but have never done a motor swap.
Also, Im uncertain if the new stuff is going to come with the ECM or not, and if not, can HD flash his 107 ECM with the 114 timing and fuel maps and other parameters, or will we be forced to source a 114 ECM? Seems to me the ECM should be identical other than its programming, and the donor motor setup comes with all sensors and wiring and fueling components on it and even the drive belt, which is nice.
Any input?
 

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Unless there is some frame change on the m-8 that I don't know about it has to be split. I did a twin cam softail that the owner cut the bent frame off and tried to install motor trans and primary on the new frame as a unit. When that didn't work he gave it to us to split and reassemble .
 

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Unless there is some frame change on the m-8 that I don't know about it has to be split. I did a twin cam softail that the owner cut the bent frame off and tried to install motor trans and primary on the new frame as a unit. When that didn't work he gave it to us to split and reassemble .
Baggers can have the complete powertrain go in and out as a unit. The old Softails required the trans to go in separate. No idea what it takes on the new ones.

With that said, it would take some stout men to pull the whole powertrain from a newer FL and not mar anything. Just pulling the engine out alone is more than light work. No fun at all working alone.

The video seems pretty complete. I would do it in a different order. The plumbing on the wet M8 is a pain in the ass because of the tight clearance. I would drop the front mounting and lower the motor in the chassis, before I cleared off the stuff on top.

I did like the way they pulled the lowers off as an assembly, never thought about doing it that way. I don't learn something new every day, but I did today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Baggers can have the complete powertrain go in and out as a unit. The old Softails required the trans to go in separate. No idea what it takes on the new ones.

With that said, it would take some stout men to pull the whole powertrain from a newer FL and not mar anything. Just pulling the engine out alone is more than light work. No fun at all working alone.

The video seems pretty complete. I would do it in a different order. The plumbing on the wet M8 is a pain in the ass because of the tight clearance. I would drop the front mounting and lower the motor in the chassis, before I cleared off the stuff on top.

I did like the way they pulled the lowers off as an assembly, never thought about doing it that way. I don't learn something new every day, but I did today.
Oh, Ill have four, very large men over when the motor is ready to come out for sure, an I will wrap everything in thick towels so as to avoid marring anything up. I was just curious if it could be done, and I couldnt find anything on removing the entire powertrain outright, so I thought Id ask.
And I suppose Ill have to call the dealership to determine if they will flash the ECM to a stock 114 for us or not. I dont see why they wouldnt., but we all know how they are.
 

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Oh, Ill have four, very large men over when the motor is ready to come out for sure, an I will wrap everything in thick towels so as to avoid marring anything up. I was just curious if it could be done, and I couldnt find anything on removing the entire powertrain outright, so I thought Id ask.
And I suppose Ill have to call the dealership to determine if they will flash the ECM to a stock 114 for us or not. I dont see why they wouldnt., but we all know how they are.
What they can flash the ecm to is limited by what the MoCo has on file by Vin as far as EPA approved updates. I doubt there is a 114 flash for that vin. They will probably make you buy an SE tuner and use one of the kit flash files.

2020 uses a different clutch mechanism, so the left hand controls will be needed for a full swap.

If that was my scooter, I would pull the cassette and see if the case was hurt. If it was good, I would swap the gears and then just put the motor in without the 2020 trans. Lot less work for the price of a few more gaskets. The 2020 inner primary should already be vented, so he can use that too.

Without the jigs the factory has, swapping a whole power unit is going to be difficult at the very least. Swapping just a motor, not so bad.

The more I think about it, If I was going to use the motor and the trans, I would put them in separately.

Past that, if the replacement motor came out of a wreck, it would behoove your friend to open it up and check the crank runout on both ends. Before doing the swap. More than a few wreck motors have been found to have scissored cranks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Great advise
I didnt even consider that. Lets hope its not scissored.
Also, Im hoping we can use the hydraulic clutch setup on the 2020 transmission. This motor does come with the primary on it with the belt and everything so I assume they were able to remove it as a unit, or perhaps just cut the frame apart to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm not a fan of hydraulic clutches. They went back to cable so they must not of worked out to good.
Indeed. I am not a fan of them either, but I just dont want to source more parts. If he wants to go to a cable setup, hes welcome to. Im just trying to get the job done. Ill keep everyone posted on whether or not I can get the whole thing in and out without taking it apart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, the salvage shop just told me they literally just unbolt the powertrain front and rear, unplug everything, and pull em right off and its really easy, so Im going to just try that. This Saturday morning, its on haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
We'll need video.

Sent from here to there.
Indeed. Just to warn ya, Im a cussing maniac when I work on crap. Ill see what I can do.
Once the pipes, seat, tank, side covers, bags and swingarm are all off, it really shouldnt be that bad with some large men to help me move the stuff. I plan to use two low floor jacks to lift and support the assembly both coming out and going in, lots of towels to prevent marring of finishes, and perhaps a strap over the spine of the frame and assembly as well. The salvage company said its nothing, but who knows what equipment they have, and I cannot find any video of them or anyone else doing this. The donor assembly comes with everything all hooked up still- the head cooling lines, wiring harness, and all hoses that attach to the oil cooler and such. Luckily, this is not a water cooled one with radiators in lowers and all that.
Only bad thing is they wont sell us an ECM for the 114, and HD cannot flash the 114 parameters into the 107 ECM, so hes going to have to get a tuner from the looks of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What is their reason for not selling you the ECM? What is the name of the salvage company?
No reason, other than they think that its just so easy to spend a chunk of change on a "tuner" and then spend more money and time tuning, rather than just giving you the proper ECM for the motor for whatever reason they have.
I am no stranger to tuning, even with some of the most user unfriendly softwares, such as Tuner Pro RT, which is actually badass stuff if you can learn to use it.
There is a guy whos cracked the HD stuff and it only costs 40.00 for the BIN, XDF and ECM files for Tuner pro, so I may just hit him up about it and just do that. Itll be cool as hell cause all the HD guys will be asking me wtf Im using to dial in the bike.
Its proven stuff, Ive tuned my own, turbo awd 4 cylinder cars back in the day with it to over 400 whp on 93 octane fuel, using huge, 1150cc per minute injectors, my own custom timing and fuel maps, etc. Even had no lift to shift, launch control, turned the check engine light into a shift light, doubled the airflow metering capability of the ecm, all kinds of stuff, and it even has real time logging capability with load cell tracing and that was on 20 year old crap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Alright, everyone. The swap is done. First, I will say that I do NOT ever want to do this job again, and will not ever do it again- it was a huge pain in the ass. I didnt get video, but Im sure these pictures will show that it can be done and has been done. Friday after work, I spent one hour to strip the bike down and get it strapped onto the chock. Saturday was booked with lots of riding so that was a no go, so, yesterday, from 1PM to 6PM, I had guys come over for the party and we got the old one out and the new one in.
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The primary comes apart so easily it doesn't make sense to do it that way. It's just silly.
The primary wasnt even close to being an issue. Rocker box clearance in the rear, and the very front of the motor, beneath the oil filter was.
The tape is only on the primary because there was a scuff on the primary there, so I assumed the salvage company had done that getting it out, but it never came close to being touched.
 
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