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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
July of 2007 I replaced the stock camshafts in my SERK (1800 mi.) with a set from HQ. The bike ran great, 100 hp/115 tq, and I had no unusual noises. This spring (4700 mi.) I had the great idea of stepping it up a little. I purchased heads, cams, gear drive and a larger throttle body from a well known bike engine builder. I was concerned about going with the gear drive, because I had .004 run-out, but they said it would be fine. Sent the jugs out to be diamond cut and then had them lightly honed for the new set of rings. Downloaded the appropriate break in map, the engine ran good but I did have a lot of gear clatter and valve noises. I was also a little dissapointed with the performance though, seat of the pants feel just wasn't all that much better. Checked the compression after about 1000 mi. and it was down to 195 from the stock reading of 225. Tried all sorts of attempts to quiet the engine down, oversize gears, new lifters, numorous pushrod adjustment techniques, tapered pushrods, valve cover and rocker box clearancing. Spoke to Andrews Gear and they freaked me out, telling me I could have a catastrophic engine failure running gear drive with that much run-out. Decided to go back to the chain drive set up, and since the supplier could not recommend a set of cams, I tried Wood's TW-7H. Well these cams really woke up the performance, compression jumped back up to 225, but I still had excessive valve train noises. I know their cams are a little loud, but this was not normal to me. The fact that these cams were milder ( shorter duration/ less lift) than the ones in the kit, and that they helped the performance so much, I started to think that maybe the big head, big cam, big throttle body approach was not all that it was hyped up to be. I had a set of stock TC88 heads done up by HQ, went back to their cams, roller rockers. "black ops" lifters and the stock throttle body. Compression is still 225. No BS, the engine performance is superior to anything else I had tried yet, but I still have the same freakin' noise at the same engine speeds. It starts to get noisey at 1800 rpm, quiets down ever so slightly at 2000 rpm, and then comes back at any speed above that. It is a hair quieter with Torco 50, but I feel the bike performs better with the Mobil V twin 20/50. Oil pressure is fine. If I am on the highway at 3000 rpm and noisey, roll off the throttle ever so slightly to unload the engine, it will quiet down just a hair, roll back on just a hair again and it is back. Sounds like the noise is up high in both rocker boxes, on the bike it sounds the loudest from the left. Bike now has 8000 mi., this is driving me crazy. Any ideas?
 

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July of 2007 I replaced the stock camshafts in my SERK (1800 mi.) with a set from HQ. The bike ran great, 100 hp/115 tq, and I had no unusual noises. This spring (4700 mi.) I had the great idea of stepping it up a little. I purchased heads, cams, gear drive and a larger throttle body from a well known bike engine builder. I was concerned about going with the gear drive, because I had .004 run-out, but they said it would be fine. Sent the jugs out to be diamond cut and then had them lightly honed for the new set of rings. Downloaded the appropriate break in map, the engine ran good but I did have a lot of gear clatter and valve noises. I was also a little dissapointed with the performance though, seat of the pants feel just wasn't all that much better. Checked the compression after about 1000 mi. and it was down to 195 from the stock reading of 225. Tried all sorts of attempts to quiet the engine down, oversize gears, new lifters, numorous pushrod adjustment techniques, tapered pushrods, valve cover and rocker box clearancing. Spoke to Andrews Gear and they freaked me out, telling me I could have a catastrophic engine failure running gear drive with that much run-out. Decided to go back to the chain drive set up, and since the supplier could not recommend a set of cams, I tried Wood's TW-7H. Well these cams really woke up the performance, compression jumped back up to 225, but I still had excessive valve train noises. I know their cams are a little loud, but this was not normal to me. The fact that these cams were milder ( shorter duration/ less lift) than the ones in the kit, and that they helped the performance so much, I started to think that maybe the big head, big cam, big throttle body approach was not all that it was hyped up to be. I had a set of stock TC88 heads done up by HQ, went back to their cams, roller rockers. "black ops" lifters and the stock throttle body. Compression is still 225. No BS, the engine performance is superior to anything else I had tried yet, but I still have the same freakin' noise at the same engine speeds. It starts to get noisey at 1800 rpm, quiets down ever so slightly at 2000 rpm, and then comes back at any speed above that. It is a hair quieter with Torco 50, but I feel the bike performs better with the Mobil V twin 20/50. Oil pressure is fine. If I am on the highway at 3000 rpm and noisey, roll of the throttle ever so slightly to unload the engine, it will quiet down just a hair, roll back on just a hair again and it is back. Sounds like the noise is up high in both rocker boxes, on the bike it sounds the loudest from the left. Bike now has 8000 mi., this is driving me crazy, any ideas.
Noise is in any gear?
 

· Moneygreen
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With that much run out,You probably should have done the bottom end.Now it turns into a crap shoot & a game of cat & mouse trying to locate the noise.You might have to pull motor apart.Take your time and throughly inspect all new & old parts.Inspect all exhaust shields and nuts and bolts associated with the exhaust!!!!!
 

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Some are saying the short skirts on the pistons are making that noise. My 110" with SE pistons makes that exact noise. Can play with the noise buy rolling into and out of the throttle at certian RPMS.....


Brad
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The bike only had 4700 miles on it, and it was coming up on the riding season. Also I was told .004 was no big deal. So there was no way I was pulling the engine out. I think I even heard Harley increased the run-out limit to .008-.012 . And to answer Vienna's question, the noise is in any gear, from 1800 rpm up. It used to only happen after riding for a least a few miles, now it seems to start as soon as one mile.
 

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The bike only had 4700 miles on it, and it was coming up on the riding season. Also I was told .004 was no big deal. So there was no way I was pulling the engine out. I think I even heard Harley increased the run-out limit to .008-.012 . And to answer Vienna's question, the noise is in any gear, from 1800 rpm up. It used to only happen after riding for a least a few miles, now it seems to start as soon as one mile.
Actually it is now .013".
You may be hearing valve lash.
We adjust our pushrods here, by going .140"-.150" into the lifter.
The TPI on the adjuster will alert you to how many turns/flats that is.
Worth a try.
 

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noise

I have seen this sort of thing a lot and the first thing we do is go to straight weight 50 or 60 fossil oil which usually solves the problem, if not, then the R&R cam plate because the pinion shaft to bushing tolerance is much tighter. The issue is usually oil airation caused first by multigrade and secondly by synthetic oil and third by air whipping into the oil inside the oil pump causing a hydrology problem in the lifters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I have SE's new tapered push rods (24 TPI). Harley recommends 2.5 turns (.104), which I have tried, Also tried 3 turns (.01248) and 3.5 (. 0145) Neither helped, was using Torco 50, which did help a little, but not enough. This all seemed to happen after swapping heads or possibly after the light honing of the cylinders. The original cam swap created no extra noise at all. This noise used to only come on after a good three miles or so, seems to come on sooner now. I did not check piston skirt clearance at the time, seeing how the engine had such low mileage. Wish I did, because I heard they can be way out from the get go. Randy, I am glad you and Hillside or trying to help. Thanks.
 

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Were alignment pins used for locating your rocker arms supports? Did you check the side to side movement of your rocker arms? I think they are supposed to be at a max of .004
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No alignment pins, put all the bolts in and centered the supports by moving them around to what I felt was dead centered. I believe the max. spec. on side clearance is .018, I had .012. Thanks for the reply.
 

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May be a lifter bleeding down......
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am on my third set of lifters. Randy, I would have tried the [email protected] cam plate, but it wouldn't clear my exhaust. Would having my crank trued and then a new bushing cure the airation?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Any other suggestions out there?
 

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Why not pull the shields off your exhausts and ride it to eliminate that possibility.??..
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mo-Dog, I suppose I could, but I can hear the noise at each valve cover with a stethascope.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
While I have some attention, Darkhorse told me with the HP I may be producing, that my connecting rods may be a weak link. If I open up the motor to true the crank etc. I thought this may be a good time to go larger. Is there a particular bore/ stroke combo upgrade for the 110 that is best?
 

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Consider this in your evolution of changes the valve spring pressure was moved up, or was it? The cam has a reputation for being a top performer but has very fast acceleration and jerk, the ramps. Depending on your riding style and expectations you may be just a cam change away from a very quiet valvetrain, assuming you stay with chain drive.
Considering the head flow characteristics some quiet grinds to consider, SE257, Andrews 32H, Wild Things TC26U. I do not know about the heads and what was done to them. The stockers have an overly large intake valve and an equally large throat. If the head porter went up from there?...
From a 110 a 113" (HD) or 117" (Axtell) is a natural
 

· Moneygreen
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110 noise

I have seen this sort of thing a lot and the first thing we do is go to straight weight 50 or 60 fossil oil which usually solves the problem, if not, then the R&R cam plate because the pinion shaft to bushing tolerance is much tighter. The issue is usually oil airation caused first by multigrade and secondly by synthetic oil and third by air whipping into the oil inside the oil pump causing a hydrology problem in the lifters.

Geesh Randy!!!! Can you please break it down for us slow folks!!! We all are not motor heads you know!!!! Some of us are trying to really understand.With language like that I will never get it!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
 

· Moneygreen
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110

While I have some attention, Darkhorse told me with the HP I may be producing, that my connecting rods may be a weak link. If I open up the motor to true the crank etc. I thought this may be a good time to go larger. Is there a particular bore/ stroke combo upgrade for the 110 that is best?
You want bore think big,you want stroke think bigger!!! R&R has a nice new 5 piece crank that comes balanced,trued,& plugged already with rods.Any stroke you want!!!!!!
 

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Geesh Randy!!!! Can you please break it down for us slow folks!!! We all are not motor heads you know!!!! Some of us are trying to really understand.With language like that I will never get it!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
I love this place man, happy to see someone actually reads this stuff.
:clap::clap:
 
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