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Discussion Starter #1
Cost aside, what are the pluses and minuses of this in going from a 95” to the 103”? Are strokers reliable, have excessive valve train noise, better exhaust note? Is the longevity similar to a non – stroked engine? How much more power can be expected over a stock 95” motor? Is there a stage 1 and stage 2 for a 103”?

Thanks,
Ken
 

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Yet another 43 Double D
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no easy answer

I'm far from an expert (although I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...) but don't think there is a clear cut answer to your question.

The MOCO sells complete 103 engines (supposedly because dealers weren't installing the kits correctly.) Most folks think the SE 103 kit can use some tweaking (cams). I'm pretty happy with my set up that has lots of gitty up but think you could get better bang for your buck with a primo 95 build -- I was lucky since the better half agreed to the 103 as a birthday present! ~!Awesome!

I'm sure you heard the old saw: there is no replacement for displacement. IMO, the SE 103 is as big as you can get while "still keeping it Harley." There are many more saavy folks around here who can give you a better answer.

Good luck
 

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With todays matierals and engineering a stroker is MUCH more dependable than the Shovel Head days. The Stroker does however have a higher rate of piston speed and acceleration which does take away some of the longevity of the engines life. Now the next question is how long does the TwinCam motor last. Contrary to some of the Pain in the **** so called engineers on this forum that need writen documentation of this and don't believe it till they do read it, but Harley has tested the Twincam motor up to 300,000 miles successfully. Stroking the engine can take up to 50% of the engine life away depending on the size of the stroke. The 103 is such a small stroke addage that the engine life will hardly be noticed. Strokers like a 113'', 117'' 124'' and such will have more wear do to pressures in the cylinder and piston acceleration .A Strokers of this nature can lessen an engines life down to 75,000 to 100,000 miles. Now with that said a stroker will have MUCH more torque and power than a 95'' motor will. The larger the stroker the more torque...ie a 113'' stroker can develop 110 ft lbs of tq at 2000 rpm and 130 or more at 3500 rpm and around 124hp at 6000 rpm. Now personally this engine would be much more fun to ride for 75,000 miles over a 100 hp 95'' motor for 250,000 miles.
Hope this helps and beware of the infamous engineers to refute this information because they never seen it writen.....my 36 years of experience in this field is enough evidence for me on this mater.
 

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For the sake of everyone on this forum, I wont comment further on longevity.

IMO, 103 may require timken conversion depending on power youre building for.
 

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Hellbound Train
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Speaking for the SE 103" Stroker, you will see better HP and torque and the sound is awesome. There are surely some longetivity issues but very minimal. I recommend building your own as the components in the MOCO engine leave a lot to be desired. The only negative seen by some people is the extra cost.
 

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IronButt
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Strokers are fun and I agree riding my 124 is more fun than a 95. Cost wise depending on what set up you choose can be less cost effeicent than other routes. A HD 103 crate motor is a mid 80's and mid 90 peak numbers. verse's building one with some other SE parts will increase that but then again depending on intended use that may not be as helpfull if you are looking for low end tq. THe SE hd engine is not too bad of a running package making some decent tq. Remeber though that is a EPA engine set up. some mods and you have a decent package.
 

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For the price of the stroker crank($1500) you could literally have your case bored out and prepped, buy a big bore 107"/114" all bore kit and still have a few bucks to spare. Keep the stock 4" stroke.
 

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Axtell 107 kit, case boring amounts to about $1200, while you at it do the Timken conversion for another $300 (2003 >) and you have a fun ride too..
That's at least what I am currrently doing
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all of the comments. This actaully is for my friend. I have already lived this life already on a different build.

If the heads and pistons stay stock from the 103 kit, is there a gear drive cam that anyone that can be recommended to work with this stock combination that would be good for low end. This is an electra glide. I think the stock cr is 9:1.

Thanks,
Ken
 

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kken6217 said:
Thanks for all of the comments. This actaully is for my friend. I have already lived this life already on a different build.

If the heads and pistons stay stock from the 103 kit, is there a gear drive cam that anyone that can be recommended to work with this stock combination that would be good for low end. This is an electra glide. I think the stock cr is 9:1.

Thanks,
Ken
Ken: thats the thing, the stock pistons don't remain, you need special stroker pistons if you buy the stroker crank. They shove the wrist pin up higher into the piston to accomadate the longer stroke. So add another few hundred bucks on top of the stroker crank. Tell your friend to seriously consider those all bore kits, you can make more tq and hp from the 107" or 114" kits than you can from the stroker crank 103" setup. For probably a bit less money. The engine will run a bit smoother and will probably last longer too from the improved oversquare engine geometry.

If your sticking with stock twin cam heads(at least get the ports cleaned up a bit), regardless of which setup you go, probably an andrews TW21 or 26 if your cr is close to stock. If your compression is bumped up significantly over stock close to 10:1, an Andrews 37g would be a good choice, popular here on this forum. Eitherway you would probably want a place like Dewey's to clean up the ports on your heads to get the most potential from your engine combination.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
MechaGodzilla said:
Ken: thats the thing, the stock pistons don't remain, you need special stroker pistons if you buy the stroker crank. They shove the wrist pin up higher into the piston to accomadate the longer stroke. So add another few hundred bucks on top of the stroker crank. Tell your friend to seriously consider those all bore kits, you can make more tq and hp from the 107" or 114" kits than you can from the stroker crank 103" setup. For probably a bit less money. The engine will run a bit smoother and will probably last longer too from the improved oversquare engine geometry.

If your sticking with stock twin cam heads(at least get the ports cleaned up a bit), regardless of which setup you go, probably an andrews TW21 or 26 if your cr is close to stock. If your compression is bumped up significantly over stock close to 10:1, an Andrews 37g would be a good choice, popular here on this forum. Eitherway you would probably want a place like Dewey's to clean up the ports on your heads to get the most potential from your engine combination.
What I meant was the "stock" stroker pistons that come with the 103 kit as opposed to using high compression.

He won't go for sending out the heads etc, and he knows about a 107 big bore as that is what I did. I think he was traumatized to what I went through all summer with two other 95" builds that went wrong.

I think hs is pretty much looking at the street legal 103 kit, changing the pipes, adding SERT, and gear drive cams. Since the compression will be stock, you think the 21's or 26's would be good for this comb? I am assuming this is better than the 253 cam that comes with the kit? I had told him that I hadn't heard anyone say anything good about it.

Ken
 

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kken6217 said:
What I meant was the "stock" stroker pistons that come with the 103 kit as opposed to using high compression.

He won't go for sending out the heads etc, and he knows about a 107 big bore as that is what I did. I think he was traumatized to what I went through all summer with two other 95" builds that went wrong.

I think hs is pretty much looking at the street legal 103 kit, changing the pipes, adding SERT, and gear drive cams. Since the compression will be stock, you think the 21's or 26's would be good for this comb? I am assuming this is better than the 253 cam that comes with the kit? I had told him that I hadn't heard anyone say anything good about it.

Ken
What "trauma" did you go through? And whats the "street legal" kit? Does it come with low compression pistons or something in that generality?

How I look at it, is that if your going to consider even doing a stroker crankshaft, you should at least send the case out to get the timken bearing installed on all the 03' and later cases, but the year of his bike wasn't mentioned. If your going to send the case out for that conversion, then you are probably better off just boring the case and doing an all bore conversion. 4.125/4.25 x 4" stroke is by nature a better setup than 3.875" x 4 3/8" stroke, the engine will run smoother, make a bit more power, and probably will last a bit longer. Even using the stock heads I think the all bore route is better route. But whether or not he goes 103" or 107/114" he isnt going to get the potential from his build with stock heads.
 

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SEDELUXE05 said:
is it possible to get a 95 to run with the 103. or will the 103 always be better.
In terms of power? Sure you can, the 95" will need to be set up a bit more agressively though because it has less displacement, but I have seen many 95" motors put more power to the ground than 103"s. There are a couple of companies doing bolt on 98" kits(Axtell and Millenium)that close the cubic inch gap disparity between them too.
I think on a dollar per dollar basis, you can get more power from a 95". The reason I say this is because you need to spend $1500 just for the stroker crankshaft by itself. And if your not installing it yourself, add labor cost on top of that $1500.
 

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Knower of Stuff
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kken6217,
Your friend is wasting his money unless he gets all the correct components to go with the build.
For what he is wanting to do, you can get more HP and TQ out of a 95" for less money, if he is sticking with stock heads on a 103" motor.
It is the total package that makes the motor.
The cam, heads, Cubic inches, Carb/EFI map, breather and pipes.
If he want to go big, then spend the bucks and do it right.
MechaGodzilla, is correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I guess he is dead set on the 103. Who knows. Maybe likes the logo?

By the way, what is different about the heads on the 103 versus the 88/95?
Also what is the story with the Timkin Bearing? I hadn't heard about this> I wonder if this was changed on my engine. Is it expensive?
Ken
 

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I two have been considering the 103 kit for geezer glide. I liked the idea of the cast pistons and a little lower compression. What kind of pistons do the axtell 107 kits have in them? I always was led to believe that more stroke equalled more low end torque. Does the axtell kits use orings on cyl base, what kind of head gaskets?? I want to install 6 speed and have plenty of low end touring power. steve
 

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kken6217 said:
I guess he is dead set on the 103. Who knows. Maybe likes the logo?

By the way, what is different about the heads on the 103 versus the 88/95?
Also what is the story with the Timkin Bearing? I hadn't heard about this> I wonder if this was changed on my engine. Is it expensive?
Ken
Difference in the heads are the valve sizes, chamber volume, ports I think are larger to accomadate the valves too. Twin cams from 1999-2002 had the timken crank bearing, in 03' they changed to a weaker inferior roller bearing. Seems to be a crap shoot on them taking the abuse from engines where performance is bumped. A timken bearing conversion will cost about $200-$400 depedning on where you take the case for the conversion.

And what happened with the 95" builds that went "wrong"?
 

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SteveK7m said:
I two have been considering the 103 kit for geezer glide. I liked the idea of the cast pistons and a little lower compression. What kind of pistons do the axtell 107 kits have in them? I always was led to believe that more stroke equalled more low end torque. Does the axtell kits use orings on cyl base, what kind of head gaskets?? I want to install 6 speed and have plenty of low end touring power. steve
Overall engine displacement is what really makes torque, not the stroke. A 107" will naturally make more torque than a 103" just by the virtue of the extra 4 cubic inches of displacement. Stroking a motor is just another way to increase displacement.Stroking though does have detrimental effects, it increases piston speed and cylinder side loading and piston slap if piston to bore tolerances are not tight. Not sure what type of pistons come with the Axtell kits. Probably forged. There is nothing wrong with running forged either. Gasket sets I believe are MLS by cometic. Cometic makes a super quality head gasket. I believe O rings are used at the base too.
 

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SteveK7m said:
I two have been considering the 103 kit for geezer glide. I liked the idea of the cast pistons and a little lower compression. What kind of pistons do the axtell 107 kits have in them? I always was led to believe that more stroke equalled more low end torque. Does the axtell kits use orings on cyl base, what kind of head gaskets?? I want to install 6 speed and have plenty of low end touring power. steve
They have two piston choices for the 107', a flat top with -3 cc volume and a dished piston with -10 cc. The flat top comes in at 10.3 comp ratio with their .040 Cometic head gasket at 85 cc heads. I do not know what kind of base gasket they use, but I will find out early December when we put together my 107' with dished pistons, 80 cc heads, 0.03 Cometic, Deweys ProStreet heads, Andrews 67 G and a 44 CV carb.
Axtell customer service is quick, helpfull and patient....
 

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Not only could you get more power out of a 95 you could do that with off the shelf plain vanilla SE parts such as SE performance heads 211s and only aftermarket piece would be a cometic .030 HG. The barrels and pistons from the 95 kit could remain untouched. Factor in the labor and I would guess that you just saved 3k. There is a LOT of labor to pull a motor and split the cases. Not really as bad as the dealer will have you believing.

Want a big motor, bore it. Want it mild and low compression use the stock heads and Axtell dished piston 107 kit and a sleeper cam like tw55gs. Tried and proven.
 
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