[Saxxon]

Hi all,

this is my first post in this forum.

So I first want to introduce myself a bit.
I live in Cologne/Germany and got a '05 Fat Boy for Christmas (big gift, I know ). It's all still stock.
I have some HD experiences, 'cause 10 years ago I build up a custom Sporty. I planed to spent one winter in the custom job, but after all it tooked me the winter and most of the following summer to get the bike done (done? is it ever done? lol). And did I mention, one girl friend

For the last few years I was more in riding sport bikes on the race track (YZF-R1, ZX-10R).
But now I am back with HD and guess what? I need some serious performance upgrades. Riding a stock street legal HD here in Germany is a no ng! If u would like to overtake a normal car u must wait until the next 2,5 miles of traffic free straights. And compared to my last hot ace (175hp/200kg)this is like riding a slug crossing a highway.

So I began my research for more engine power.

My first choice was the Edelbrock Performer Kit.

http://www.edelbrock.com/motorcycle/power_pack/pp-twin_cam_efi.shtml

Dyna chart was very impressive but I did not found any dealer or reseller and only one review on the web.

http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/0502hb_edel/



Then I inspected many of the big names. Like Underground Heads, Bishop's Performance, Cycle Rama, S&S, etc ...

But I ended up with the Screamin' Eagle parts.
On reason is because the parts are genuine parts, that will make it easier to sell the bike later on. And a friend of mine is a HD mechanic, so he could help me a lot on this parts (he is also new in this hd business, an old moto guzzi mech).

Here is my prefered setup:

- Air Cleaner and Breather Kit 29440-99C
- CNC Ported HTCC Heads 16925-02A
- Big Bore Cylinders 16546-99
- Twin Cam HTCC Forged Pistons 22439-00A
- SE-257 Cam 25155-00
- Quick-Install Adjustable Pushrods 17997-99A
- HTCC EFI Intake Manifold Kit 29608-02
- Race Tuner
- Exhaust from '05 Screamin' Eagle Fat Boy Cal.

This is a mix between a carburator and efi set I found in the
"Screamin’ Eagle® Pro Racing Parts" catalog.
It should not make a superbike out of my Fat Boy, but give my some seriuos power and a smile in my face.

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/...in_eagle_parts.jsp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=enUS

a) Did I miss anything? (Except the gaskets)?

b) Do u have any comments or suggestions?

c) Can I use the Intake Manifold with these heads?

d) Would it be better (price?) to get a Stage II kit kit and sell the pistions and cams after?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[genoway]

Welcome aboard!

It looks like you want to max it out. Ok, staying with your restriction of HD only parts.

You can stroke it 23703-02
and go with Bigger Bore Cylinders 16550-04
and go with Bigger Bore pistons for HTTC 22545-04

Then you will have a 113" instead of 95"

Screamin’ Eagle Pro Tunable 2-into-1 Exhaust System 80093-03

 

[Saxxon]

welcome to the forum first off you might try writing a little about yourself in the introduction forum.
:welcome:

I see, sorry for that.
And thx for your fast and detailed reply.

next if you must use se parts i would no go with the htcc set up id go with performance heads flat top pistons and an aftermarket cam woods, andrews,s&s one of those i like the andrews and woods.

It is not a must. But my point is the reselling factor. Most of the buyers are not that mutch in the scene, but Screamin' Eagle is a well known brand.
And I like it, I see u too
Next I think the dyna charts and values of >110hp and max 105tq (never < 90rq) is very impressive.
And, I have allread bought the heads (Ebay).
So I am more interested in additional parts or something missing.

option 2: go to woods web site or gmr performance site or deweyspegs.com and check out their dyno section for a better build. you can do far more with getting your own parts done i know your in another country but look at the sites first. if you have your parts done it will still be hd equipment(port heads,bore the barrels)

Reviewed that, most are in the same range ("95).
All round about 100-110 hp and tq. The tq curves are similar comp. to se kits.
An are good numbers too. Very impressed.

option 3: i like this one personally
you could always go to 98in and have your heads done good cam and make a lot of power and no one will know the barrels are not hd. 98in kit 37g cam and have your heads done your talking some good tq # also dont forget the sert youll need that to tune

Do u thing these "3 make some serious diffrence.
If u are taking about a stroker, i am with u, but only "3 more? I think it will be better to get rid of 30kg off the bike. Maybe I am going to have some serious diet for myself

Why do u have all these se stuff?

 

[Saxxon]

Welcome aboard!

It looks like you want to max it out. Ok, staying with your restriction of HD only parts.

You can stroke it 23703-02
and go with Bigger Bore Cylinders 16550-04
and go with Bigger Bore pistons for HTTC 22545-04

Then you will have a 113" instead of 95"

Screamin’ Eagle Pro Tunable 2-into-1 Exhaust System 80093-03

No sorry, u got me wrong.
I dont want to get it on the edge. I wanna stay at "95 (first), but with the possibilities of using my parts in a stroker later.
Goal is 100/100 with high starting tq curve (+-10%).
I will stay with the stock efi for now and maybe later change to an carburator or an other body.

And it's not HD only.
The exhaust is from an SE Fat Boy (yes, California).
Is this a no go? I am not a big friend of 2into1 pipes.
What about the Python 3?

Have a look here

http://www.branchflowmetrics.com/Softail.html

Thx for your recommendation,
Micha

 

[genoway]

The Python 3 would be better than the Screamin Eagle Slip-ons from the SE Fat Boy.

Also look at the Cycle Shack Slip-ons.

 

[Saxxon]

Ok, let's see what we got here:

Exhaust:

• 2in1 are top performers, but I dont like the look.
  
• Python 3 Slip-ons, look is nice, numbers are good especially for slip-ons.
  
• SE Slip-ons, look is nice too, numbers are 10% below the Python.

Cams:

• The tw5g sounds good for me.
  
• But what about my first mentioned cams SE-257?
  I would like too here other opinions.

Manifold:

• Will the stock Manifold do the work width the ported HTCC heads?

Gearing:

Will change this later.


I am not hunting for the last hp, just looking for some serious power but always with durability in mind.

 

[Saxxon]

if money is not an issue dump the 95in build and order a 120in from the dealer

good joke!
Money always matters. But it is more a question for a good deal.
So say my budget is $1.000, if u say buy cams xxx and spend $100 extra for a gain of 20hp I would do it.

I would like to see some dyna charts.

Here is one I found on the HD Website.

• Air Cleaner and Breather Kit 29440-99C
• 45MM Flatslide Carburetor 28040-02
• Big Bore Cylinders 16546-99
• Twin Cam HTCC Forged Pistons 22439-00A
• CNC Ported HTCC Heads 16925-02B
• Compression Release 32076-04
• Big Bore Intake Manifold 29635-99
• SE-257 Cam see page 51
• Quick-Install Adjustable Pushrods 17997-99A
• Adjustable Map Ignition System 32704-01
• Screamin ’ Eagle Pro II Muf flers 80258-99A

That's what I am looking for. 10% less would perfectly fit.
I would first leave my efi installed.

Thx for your help.

 

[Thorns]

And nitrous...

Thorns

 

[joepenoso]

If you want the Screaming Eagle parts, remember if you go to
Chicago harley (Ask for Dora)or Zanotti motors get a list of parts made up and get a quote it will be at least 20% off list price.

joepenoso

 

[compressor#v]

".251 comes on too late"
Actually the .251 is a lot like Woods TW8G which is a very good torque cam according to some. The .251 has a shorter duration and a earlier close than the .257. Although I have no personal experience with either, many have had excellent results with the HTCC CNC heads and the .251 cams. Also the .251 has higher lift than the .257's which those heads will easily handle.

 

[Bart Pickett]

Manifold

The stock manifold has to be used with the ported heads the plain HTCC heads use the HTCC manifold, with the ported heads the ( hump ) in the intake port is machined out to increase flow and does not match up with the HTCC manifold. I have almost the same setup except for the pipes. This is a high RPM setup, Dyno is 100/100. I got off Honda 929 and on 2003 Duce and the stock power just didn't get it. I like the setup for one up but if you are two up there is not much torque in the lower rpm's

 

[ViennaHog]

good joke!
Money always matters. But it is more a question for a good deal.
So say my budget is $1.000, if u say buy cams xxx and spend $100 extra for a gain of 20hp I would do it.

I would like to see some dyna charts.

Here is one I found on the HD Website.

• Air Cleaner and Breather Kit 29440-99C
• 45MM Flatslide Carburetor 28040-02
• Big Bore Cylinders 16546-99
• Twin Cam HTCC Forged Pistons 22439-00A
• CNC Ported HTCC Heads 16925-02B
• Compression Release 32076-04
• Big Bore Intake Manifold 29635-99
• SE-257 Cam see page 51
• Quick-Install Adjustable Pushrods 17997-99A
• Adjustable Map Ignition System 32704-01
• Screamin ’ Eagle Pro II Muf flers 80258-99A

That's what I am looking for. 10% less would perfectly fit.
I would first leave my efi installed.

Thx for your help.

You very likely get about 10% less with this build, at the rear wheel. I believe HD uses crank torque #, but most of the dyno charts you see on this forum a 4th gear rear wheel HP. Real challenge with the EFI bike is to find a real tuner in Germany who does more than dumping the HD maps and send you off. And after reading and thinking through many posts on the subject, you better look for a different cam and heads if you are into street use arm stretching torque

BTW If you find that magical part that gives you 20HP for $100, I am interested.:yes:

 

[Saxxon]

@ViennaHog
Still looking for this $100/20hp thing

Cause I have done some track racing with my superbikes, I know very experienced guys for dyno testing and tuning. I live in Cologne that's only 60 miles away from the "Nürburgring", also known by "Nordschleife". Where all those race freaks hang around.

I allready owned the heads, so I give them a chance.

@Bart

The stock manifold has to be used with the ported heads the plain HTCC heads use the HTCC manifold, with the ported heads the ( hump ) in the intake port is machined out to increase flow and does not match up with the HTCC manifold.

That's that I read before. But thanks for making things clear.

I have almost the same setup except for the pipes. This is a high RPM setup, Dyno is 100/100. I got off Honda 929 and on 2003 Duce and the stock power just didn't get it. I like the setup for one up but if you are two up there is not much torque in the lower rpm's

Do u think that other cams will give it better tq in the lower rpms?
Thinking of the earlier mentioned 251 or TW6HG or TW5G?


@ALL

What about gear vs chain cams?
Anbody with experiences?

 

[103FLHX]

good joke!
Money always matters. But it is more a question for a good deal.
So say my budget is $1.000, if u say buy cams xxx and spend $100 extra for a gain of 20hp I would do it.

I would like to see some dyna charts.

Here is one I found on the HD Website.

• Air Cleaner and Breather Kit 29440-99C
• 45MM Flatslide Carburetor 28040-02
• Big Bore Cylinders 16546-99
• Twin Cam HTCC Forged Pistons 22439-00A
• CNC Ported HTCC Heads 16925-02B
• Compression Release 32076-04
• Big Bore Intake Manifold 29635-99
• SE-257 Cam see page 51
• Quick-Install Adjustable Pushrods 17997-99A
• Adjustable Map Ignition System 32704-01
• Screamin ’ Eagle Pro II Muf ?ers 80258-99A

That's what I am looking for. 10% less would perfectly fit.
I would first leave my efi installed.

Thx for your help.

The curves you have here are for Carb model....45mmFlatslide. You have EFI??

If you examine the curves for the EFI, in the SE catalog, you will lose about 10HP & 10 Tq from the above quoted numbers. See p15 of catalog for the numbers with a 50mm EFI Throttle body.

If you find a 'talented tuner" you maybe able to get more.

Anyway, I am not a gearhead, but am building a FLHX this winter & have recently went through these numbers & this is how I understand them.


%[email protected]

 

[Saxxon]

@103FLHX

Correct I have EFI.
I expect 10% to 15% loss. But I could upgrade that later.

Maybe there is an option to extend the injection pressure.
I found an article taking about such a litle tool, from australia, that could do that. (lost the url, sorry)

@all

Found some interesting articles. I like these kind of, cause they show what and how they have done it.

http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/0310hb_edelbrock/

http://hotrodsbikeworks.com/tech/0410hrb_stroker/

Nice Kit:

http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/0502hb_edel/

 

[joepenoso]

Go to harley tech talk a MSN site. It has the largest collection of harley dyno charts on the web. :thumbsup:
Ask a few question decide what you want to build. :RTFB:
Good luck:whisper:

joepenoso

 

[Saxxon]

Thank you all! Wild Things cams?

I want to thank you all for your great replies.
They helped me a lot.

I decided to go with the Woods cams, but as I saw their political statements on their homepage about the war and their "supporting mission" not to ship to Germany, I declined.

Because I am an German guy, I decided not to use their cams or other products. I am not a political guy, but I will not support anyone who, by policy, not want to make business with (other minded) German people.

I have sent HDWRENCH a quote request per PM and Email put got no response. Still waiting. Hope he has not the same policies.

So I am back in search of other good cams for the SE CNC ported heads.

What about the Wild Things cams?

Can someone plz help me out?

 

[joepenoso]

GMR performance is HDWRENCH

joepenoso

 

[Saxxon]

SEDELUXE, If only I had known! Just kidding.
I got the email address from his website.

Are you satisfied with your setup? Except the 251 cam?
What do you think about the Küryakyn cams, like the TC-26G or the TC46-G?

 

[compressor#v]

Saxxon, I have run the Wild Things TC46-G in a 95" with HTCC CNC heads and liked them, it was very quiet and smooth with a wide power band, but no matter which cam you decide on, the CNC heads are not for low tq, but are for high rpm hp. As for the TC26-G's, I don't know of any builds with those cams and CNC heads. You may want to contact Mike Roland and ask him about that combination.