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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, just upgraded from my carb 00 Fatboy to 06 R/K. I'm new to the EFI & wanted to know:
is a re-map the same as stage 1 ? (already doing the AC & V&H slip-ons)
dealer said they would re-program for $150.00. Is this a new flash to the ecm or just new fuel parameters like a Fuelpak or somethin?

just a little confused.

thanks

Dave
 

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00 Fatboy said:
Hi guys, just upgraded from my carb 00 Fatboy to 06 R/K. I'm new to the EFI & wanted to know:
is a re-map the same as stage 1 ? (already doing the AC & V&H slip-ons)
dealer said they would re-program for $150.00. Is this a new flash to the ecm or just new fuel parameters like a Fuelpak or somethin?

just a little confused.

thanks

Dave
Hi 00 Fatboy and welcome to the forum..............save the 150 and put to a DFO............use this to set up your bike and run it until you are ready to move on................then go to the SERT....................as this has everything you will need to tune your bike when you go to any future upgrades.

The SERT allows you to:

lower your idle speed
Raise your rpm limit
Adjust ALL fuel requirements both add in and take away in every fuel cell the Stock ECU uses
Adjust ALL spark advance and retard requirements
Lets you do the stage I download your self
Lets you talk to other members and get maps from those who have a similar build to yours
Will evetually let you tune your bike in minutes.

Only draw back is that it marries it self to 1 bike............but that has been hacked also to let you buy it once and use on other bikes you might buy.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks for the quick response Ozzie, what is a DFO?
Not sure about buying the SERT as I do no have access to a laptop

Dave
 

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Follow this thread.....www.techlusion.com .........read up on the unit, buy it, fit, and then set the pots at 2.5, 6, 4, 4 and ride the bike.

This will get your bike running quite ok for nowwithout any maps from the MOCO.

Then do a search on here and you will find out how to infinteley tune it for your setup.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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When you change the pipes and air cleaner, do you remove them before selling the bike?

When you put a 95" big bore kit in, do you remove them before selling the bike?

What makes the SERT different from the rest of these things?

I mean, if you were to use only DFO or Power Commander and removed it while leaving everything else in tact, then the bike would run like complete crap.

Throw the SERT in along with the bike when you sell it.
 

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FLSTFI-2005 said:
When you change the pipes and air cleaner, do you remove them before selling the bike?

When you put a 95" big bore kit in, do you remove them before selling the bike?

What makes the SERT different from the rest of these things?

I mean, if you were to use only DFO or Power Commander and removed it while leaving everything else in tact, then the bike would run like complete crap.

Throw the SERT in along with the bike when you sell it.
If you owned a SERT you would see quickly why it is a shame that the MOCO has decided to make you buy a new one each time you buy a new bike...........as all it is......is a CD Rom and an interface cable..............more of the Harley Tax so to speak.

I also believe that this item should have been given to the buyer when they purchased the bike new...............but the MOCO have compliance issues so this will not happen.

I just dont see why you need to buy this item more than once.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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Soar like an Eagle
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Ozzie, I disagree. You have to buy it more than once just like any other software purchase. To not do that is . . . well we won't go there.

I have bought 2 of them so I am not just talking but have done what I suggest is the correct thing to do. I left the Race Tuner on the last bike I sold since to me it would have been dumb to remove it from the bike when it ran so well with the tune that was on there. Plus the guy who bought it then had the flexibility like I would have to retune in future for future mods he might have decided to make.

Besides purchasing the new Race Tuner for the new bike allowed me to get the latest greatest version that had the downloads for the '06 bikes on it which my prior version did not have.
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
If you owned a SERT you would see quickly why it is a shame that the MOCO has decided to make you buy a new one each time you buy a new bike...........as all it is......is a CD Rom and an interface cable..............more of the Harley Tax so to speak.

I also believe that this item should have been given to the buyer when they purchased the bike new...............but the MOCO have compliance issues so this will not happen.

I just dont see why you need to buy this item more than once.

All the best, Ozzie
Glad to see you back Ozzie and in good spirits. I think the MoCo's thinking on this is people would be buying one SERT tuning all there buddies bikes and so on. That I can understand. But it would be nice if they would let you carry it to your next bike.
 

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Road Glider said:
Ozzie, I disagree. You have to buy it more than once just like any other software purchase. To not do that is . . . well we won't go there.

I have bought 2 of them so I am not just talking but have done what I suggest is the correct thing to do. I left the Race Tuner on the last bike I sold since to me it would have been dumb to remove it from the bike when it ran so well with the tune that was on there. Plus the guy who bought it then had the flexibility like I would have to retune in future for future mods he might have decided to make.

Besides purchasing the new Race Tuner for the new bike allowed me to get the latest greatest version that had the downloads for the '06 bikes on it which my prior version did not have.
Hi Road Glider, I certainly have no problem with you disagreeing........it is just that if you buy the bike new each time you are penalised for this by having to pay an additional amount each time for the same product........as it is only the cable and dongle.

Upgrading the software is only a matter of purchasing the latest cdrom.

No matter what though...........the choice is not there for any of us.......we currently have to buy a new SERT each time we go to another bike.

The cost to give this to us freely is absolute peanuts to the MOCO.......................and their research and development into this software would have occurred anyway as a by product to developing the ECU for your bike.........to copy this over and over, well how much does a blank CDRom cost, how much is labelling and how much is the inteface cable and dongle...............not much more than 20 dollars if you order in the hundreds of thousands....to me it is another way that they got greedy and found a way to add up to 450 dollars to the purchase of the bike without actually directly adding this to the bike up front when you initially bought this.

You have to remember too that there is a lot of money spent on research by the MOCO into how much to sell the bike for, they then decide on wether to add this into the cost of the purchase and / or sell it aftermarket. In this instance they went the around about way.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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vafatboy said:
Glad to see you back Ozzie and in good spirits. I think the MoCo's thinking on this is people would be buying one SERT tuning all there buddies bikes and so on. That I can understand. But it would be nice if they would let you carry it to your next bike.
Hi there vafatboy, yeah it has been tough lately but getting on here with all you great people gives me direction and helps me ease the pain............but it is going to come out sooner or later.

In the carb days and up until EFI...........this was how it was done, those that new tuned everyone elses bike..........now with this electronic era the various companies associated with it are definiteley taking advantage of the guy in the street and his lack of knowledge with electronics.

Take the A/F Ratio meter..................less than 30 bucks gets you the parts to build the guage and then 50/100 to buy the oxygen sensor to hook it up to.

This will all change in time..........as everyone goes to EFI and start to become familiar with it.

I just dont see why the MOCO needs to make an additional profit on the software that I believe should have come with the bike anyway.


All the best, Ozzie
 

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Ozzie, l agree that I wish they would charge less for the item. Have no idea what R&D money was spent to develop it but you are correct the cost of the disc, cables and dongle deal can't be much. Maybe one day they will lower the cost but I will not hold my breath on that one. Take care and stay safe.
 

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I own a SERT and just like the handle bars, grips, brake lines, throttle cables, etc... that will be attacted to the bike when the thing is sold.

If you are that worried about losing money on the SERT when selling the bike, then build in the cost of it into your asking price and be sure to list it along with all the chrome spacers, nut covers, coffee cup holder, etc... that is also on the bike.
 

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FLSTFI-2005 said:
I own a SERT and just like the handle bars, grips, brake lines, throttle cables, etc... that will be attacted to the bike when the thing is sold.

If you are that worried about losing money on the SERT when selling the bike, then build in the cost of it into your asking price and be sure to list it along with all the chrome spacers, nut covers, coffee cup holder, etc... that is also on the bike.
...............I have read your other 119 posts and and see a self opinionated person who has come on here and offers only criticsm of others and not much if at all in the way of constructive help.......take Vienna Hogs recent engine failure, what did you say.........he should have expected the problem because he chose to hot up his bike..........did he know or did you know about the suspect bearings? because if you did then why didnt you come on here 119 posts ago and tell everyone?

....thats fine what you say and I accept that..........pass the issue onto the next guy...............and while I can afford it and obviously you can, others may not..............

Funny how you wont pay the 15 dollars to join the forum but you will pay up to 450 dollars each time you change bikes or add a new bike to your garage......................so why dont you take some advice for a change.............practice what you preach!!

I strongly believe many in the EFI business are taking advantage of those who dont know about it.........and are way over charging for items associated with EFI

Anyway we could go at this for another 40 posts..................I believe this is one place where the MOCO has taken advantage of us................if you dont then that is ok with me too.

Ozzie
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
...............I have read your other 119 posts and and see a self opinionated person who has come on here and offers only criticsm of others and not much if at all in the way of constructive help.......take Vienna Hogs recent engine failure, what did you say.........he should have expected the problem because he chose to hot up his bike..........did he know or did you know about the suspect bearings? because if you did then why didnt you come on here 119 posts ago and tell everyone?
I am a brutally honest person. I say it how I see it.

Ozzie In Arabia said:
...so hello Nightboy.......you finally got back on here....thats fine what you say and I accept that..........pass the issue onto the next guy...............and while I can afford it and obviously you can, others may not..............
Who or what is a Nightboy?

Ozzie In Arabia said:
Funny how you wont pay the 15 dollars to join the forum but you will pay up to 450 dollars each time you change bikes or add a new bike to your garage......................so why dont you take some advice for a change.............practice what you preach!!
Do that make me less of a member if I am blue and not orange? I guess it does to the people who are orange.

I only have 1 bike, paid $359 for the SERT and don't plan on buying a replacement anytime soon.

Ozzie In Arabia said:
I strongly believe many in the EFI business are taking advantage of those who dont know about it.........and are way over charging for items associated with EFI
The only reason why people think that it EFI over charging and taking advantage is because it is in the very early stages and with the new EPA laws that are going into effect it made for a very sudden change over.

I have yet to see a book that covers in depth the concept of EFI tuning of a motorcycle.

I am sure in a few more years when people are forced to accept it - like what happened with automobiles - things will get stabilized price and selection wise.

Ozzie In Arabia said:
Anyway we could go at this for another 40 posts..................I believe this is one place where the MOCO has taken advantage of us................if you dont then that is ok with me too.

Ozzie


Are you talking about how I made some valid points so you had to go on some off tangent rant?

I think I will just avoid the whole situation. Thank you for thinking about me though :)
 

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..............so we will see how your future develops.

Ozzie
 

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00 Fatboy said:
EFI has been around quite a while......why does it seem so more complicated on a bike than on cars??
I dont think it is..........but I wonder how I would have answered this 12 months ago............hmm.

GRock.............when he gets back on here is the forum guru for EFI...and his pearls of wisdom have enlightened many on here.

I have just purchased the SERT and have not applied it to my bike yet..........for a couple of reasons and none of them related to EFI.

The bike is purring on the DFO at the moment so I will wait until the rear wheel arrives before I get into the SERT.

The DFO is a worthwhile proposition in the beginning and is easy as to adjust...........its biggest draw back is fuel mileage........this will suffer because it can only add fuel and not subtract it.

I have been playing with the SERT for only a few days and can see that once I am used to its idyosyncracies I will be able to create maps at will.

I dont have a dyno here to throw the bike on and tune it in a few hours.........I do have an advantage in that I have raced bikes for quite a number of years and back in the 70`s when there was not much in the way of computer anything......especially for the privateers.............you made adjustments...........TOOK NOTES...........went out, checked times.....got a feel for how your adjustments affected performance, came in............WROTE DOWN YOUR RESULTS.............made additional adjustments........went out.....and so on and so on.

This applied to everything on the engine, then when you believed you got everything out of the engine you went after drive ratios to improve sector performance........then you went with tire pressures.............(to suit local weather and track conditions).................then you went after suspension mods.........changing front/rear bias for local track conditions ............stronger/weaker damper and rebound adjustments....then went back to tire pressures and then you were ready to race.

Each race then became two things most of the time............1st..........an experiment with all available adjustments..............2nd..............improving your own personal times through each sector.............occassionally you through it all to the wind and got to race someone.

All the best, Ozzie
 

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It isn't and really is a simple program to learn and use. I paid big bucks for my tuning software for cars. Programs like Tunercat and LT1 Edit. Each car manufacture has a little different way to program the PCM or ECM based on their CAN protocol. Most companies that produce tuning software charge more then the cost of the SERT kit and their software also locks to the vehicle. And learning how to use the car software is an art all by itself. There's more tables in those maps than carter has liver pills. Each table affecting another table or two when altered.

MOCO has just followed what the industry has already set as a standard. I don't agree with it one bit but who am I to say. I personally have wrote and built interfaces to tune cars so I know it takes a lot of work to get the prototype working and debugged. Car manufactures are very secretive regarding their ECM programming so its a lengthy process of reverse engineering.

For the most part it's illegal to modify the programming on a vehicle driven on the highway due to tight EPA pollution requirements mandated on the automotive industry.

I'm happy to see HD support a program that allows us to alter our ECU in our bikes after we make modifications. I'm sure the company that make this product soaked HD a pretty penny to developed and produce it.

Some might not agree with my comments but it is what it is....

{salute(
 

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Ozzie In Arabia said:
No sweat nightboy................your m.o. is all over everyone of your posts.

I bated you again and you responded the same as always..............you do appear to have mellowed somewhat..............so we will see how your future develops this time.

Ozzie
Like I said, I have no clue what a nightboy is.

I guess you must act this way to everybody who is a non-paying member.

Here is some advice though - if you feel the need to insult people, please use http://www.spellcheck.net/ so it will get your point across instead of leaving more confusion.
 

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FLSTFI-2005 said:
Like I said, I have no clue what a nightboy is.

I guess you must act this way to everybody who is a non-paying member.

Here is some advice though - if you feel the need to insult people, please use http://www.spellcheck.net/ so it will get your point across instead of leaving more confusion.
Thats just it ................you are always full of advice for everyone...........cant back any of it up...........most of it is not much use anyway.................brutally honest...you have got to be sh#ttin me!

Confuse you..............well that always happened didnt it...............keep reading books mate............keep reading books.

Ozzie
 
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