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Discussion Starter #1
I hope someone can assist with this mess. 2005 Road King Classic. TC88 no change or flash to ECM, mostly stock except for S&S 510c cams, Ness Inverted AC, V&H True Dual head pipes with Freedom Performance Outlaw 4.5" slip ons. Loud baffle no packing, Power Commander V. Tried a couple canned maps from PC Web site with poor results. Also took the bike to Tucson Harley where they were able to really make it run like crap. Made it worse than it was. Way too rich. Many say the overlap of the 510 makes it harder to tune. Biggest problem is trying to get rid of the below 2000 RPM stumble. Really gets bad on the side streets and school speed zones.
Seems no one has any maps for the 510c Cams. Any ideas? Sure would appreciate the feedback or even a decent map. I'm stumped. Cams were installed by one of the best in town. No leaks and everything else checks out. We just lack good dyno guys.
 

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Big open true duals. Possible air leak at the intake seals should be checked first. Get into the Power Commander and see what they did. It won't take a lot of added fuel to bring that combo into tune. It may like less fuel in some areas. If it is spitting out the air filter it is lean but mind you this is just one area not the whole map. Check for intake leaks first. Years ago DJ had an accel enrichment add-on for the software. Never had to use it.
 

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The 510 cams are not the best choice but not that bad. They are a little weak below 3000 rpms. I had them with stage 1 ac and exhaust and they were fine. Then bumped the motor to 95" with head work, etc. It was a rocket.
Back in 2003 there weren't many choices if you wanted to go gear drive. No tuning issues that I'm aware of.
I think part, maybe all, of your problem is the exhaust. True duals generally sap low end. With 4.5 mufflers with no packing adds to the problem especially if you have large diameter baffles.
 

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Are you guys really referring to under 2000 rpm as "low end" as opposed to lugging?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If there were any intake leaks the dealer would have jumped on it. It ran fine before the cams and only a Fuelpak. Not lugging, stumbling under 2000. No spitting from the intake at all and no exhaust popping. Got a lot more power everywhere since adding the cams. Very pleased with the power. Just the stumble under 2000 or driving the side strweets. . Mostly at the 2% throttle and 1750 RPM
Took plenty of fuel out since it was way rich from Harley's attempt on the dyno. After removing some fuel it ran a lot better. I'm thinking about zeroing the bad cells and starting from 0
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What I need are PCV map figures on a similar build w/510 cams for 1500, 1750 and 2000 RPM @ 2%, 5% and 10% This would give me an idea where I need to be. The dealer had the numbers way too high like 35 to 55 percent over stock. Could be the reason it ran like crap. Leaned it out and lost most of the stumble but runs a little rough.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Pick one. At 1750/2% it doesn't matter. Not lugging. Sputter or stumble or however you would describe it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
That's what I am planning. I didn't touch timing but that doesn't mean the dealer didn't. I haven't messed with the timing on the PCV
How do I know if timing had been messed with on PCV?
 

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Maybe I expect roo much,,, I ask,,, then expect numbers in response,,, with numbers for the 3 parameters... I may be of assistance,, with what you provide any response is pure speculation...
 

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seems like if you are running Power commander, Doesn't it have an "auto-tune" function? Mine does. and while it is no dyno, it does help dial in the air (VE) tables. Dyno Jet recommends 3 runs of auto-tune. once air tables are dialed in, put the AFR where you want. (old dying skill to fine tune AFR with spark plug colors). high lift cams and with overlap run much better with mid 13s and less in some areas on AFR.
...I think!
 

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That's what I am planning. I didn't touch timing but that doesn't mean the dealer didn't. I haven't messed with the timing on the PCV
How do I know if timing had been messed with on PCV?
on my power commander, you can "save current tune" thats the one in your ECU. the one the dealer messed with. Once you have that, you load the compare tune (you should have that saved in one of the available slots on the power commander.) at a glance, the PCV displays both tunes and you can even select to display only delta between the two tunes.

its a good way to see what they are charging yo for!! and you can "keep them honest" when you inquire as to what they are trying to do.
 

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seems like if you are running Power commander, Doesn't it have an "auto-tune" function? Mine does. and while it is no dyno, it does help dial in the air (VE) tables. Dyno Jet recommends 3 runs of auto-tune. once air tables are dialed in, put the AFR where you want. (old dying skill to fine tune AFR with spark plug colors). high lift cams and with overlap run much better with mid 13s and less in some areas on AFR.
...I think!
I run a PC-V, it won't have auto-tune unless you purchase the additional module and O2 sensors. And then enable it.
 

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I run a PC-V, it won't have auto-tune unless you purchase the additional module and O2 sensors. And then enable it.
true for closed loop operation.
however, the PCV does have autotune function with stock narrow band sensors. only works at 14.7 AFR and yes if you want closed loop, you purchase (I did) the target tune modules, sensors and enabled tune file. this way you can run closed loop at any AFR.
 

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I’ve gotv510 gear drive. And the other stuff. Rhinehardt true duals, pc3 etc. get it tuned by a good tuner. My tc88 ran like crap. Poor fuel mileage. Buck and snorted. All the bad stuff. Took it to a awesome tuner and for 3oo bones she screams. Great power and torque. I attached dyno sheet. No bs numbers. E51E4661-20EB-4BA6-AF62-14F69AD57EDA_1530706255535.jpg . Stevo in Vegas is awesome on the dyno.
 
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