[Classichead]

My 03 FLHTCI is droping codes left and right with the engine light kicking on a dozen or more times on a 50 mile ride. The bike is new only 800 miles and I just dropped it for it's basic service and they are going to check it out. When I first noticed it I took it back right away and they said the EFI's alway's do this? The bike is running so hot that you can't stand it when it's over 70Deg. They say that it has been setup to run lean to meet emision standards. The service guy said the tech rep. for HD was in the other day and said that a Stage 1 kit for $400 bucks should richen the bike and make it run better and cooler. For some reason after spending 20+K for a new bike I'm not sure why I should have to cover this cost to make the bike run right? Can't they adjust the EFI to run Richer without this kit?

 

[JimmyK]

It is not normal or acceptable.

 

[tsuter]

Your bike has built in Temperature Management in the ECM and it kicks in at 300F at the front temp head sensor.If you are getting a bunch of DTCs the question is what are they? and then fix them - That is a problem and is not normal.
The bike will not overheat - particularly while moving unless there is a problem. If stopped and still running it won't overheat either as eventually at 300F+ the ECM will shut down 50% of your injector pulses.
However, 220-250F seems real hot to your right leg so a lot of folks think it is overheating when it isn't.
Stage I and the EFI flash won't solve DTCs and while it might run "cooler" only the front head temp sensor knows for sure - your right leg won't know.

 

[Classichead]

Tsuter

Thanks for your response, I will wait to see if the dealer can tell me what's going on. I know one thing my Evo never ran that hot.

 

[tsuter]

You can put a gauge on your front head temp sensor to see how it is running. Normal would be 220 - 250 but anything between 200 and 300 is OK. HD doesn't care until it hits 300 in terms of danger to the engine.
An oil temp gauge is (dip stick thing) also available and while interesting is not worth much as it will read much lower than the front head like 20-40-50 degrees less.

 

[chiselchst]

ClassicHead...

If I were you, I wouldn't do a stage 1 or anything else until I had them fix the bike.

Rode my EFI '02 bagger in >100 degree ambient temps before the 1,000 service, and never got a single "engine light". The bike might be hot in traffic, but no codes.

 

[HIPPO]

Make them fix the bike before you spend a dime on it. If they can't after repeated attempts look into making them give you another bike.

They have a way of turning these things around on you. Once they realize not fixing the bike will be more uncomfortable for them then fixing it they will likely fix it.
Do a search, there was another fellow on this board with something similar but without the engine lite and he said they bought the bike back. Yours with the lite should be much easier to repair.

 

[JetBlueman]

I'm getting the red engine service light always every ride. I get it at about 55mph two up, and at between 67-72 solo. Bike is in for the 1,000 mile and a fix on the red light. Will try to let you know what the problem was. Hope you get yours figured out. These things can be unnerving after a while. Hippo is right--it is not normal and they should fix it and not put in in your lap. See your HD Owner's Manual. It states the 3 steps to addressing problems while under warrantee:
Step 1.) See service manager
2.) See owner of dealership
3.) Write the Motor Company

Hope this helps some. jetBlueman

 

[RydesAHog]

Classichead,
My advice to you is to make the shop fix the bike, if they can't or wont then look around for a new shop. Ask your buddies about their experiences with some of the other HD shops that are in your area. I have a 03 FLHTCI with 1700 miles on the clock, no problems at all. I have had two different shops service my bike (neither of which is the shop that I bought my bike from, it's a long story trust me!) one local shop did the 1000 mile check up. Took my bike to another shop when it was time for the new exhaust, SE Hi/Flo kit, remap and Dyno run. I checked out both shops in advance, this way I would be comfortable that they knew what they were doing. Get your bike squared away, then go for the upgrades.

 

[Roadglider]

Thought mine was running hot (230+) Service manual says 230 is normal. Used 60 weight this summer and it helped. Thinking of oil cooler this next summer.

 

[SIDEKICK]

could be something as simple as a faulty sensor or wiring to a sensor.

one thing for sure is its not normal, fugging bike is new and they have a responsibility to make it right.you already paid plenty money, you shouldn't have to put any more into it just because them sorry pukes at the dealer are to lazy to fix it.

 

[JetBlueman]

I hope you were able to get your DTC problem figured out. For an update when I took my bike in for the 1000 mile service they figured out the red service light problem I was having. It turned out to simply be a loose spark plug wire into the coil. No more light problem. Hope yours turns out to be a simple fix too.

 

[Doug]

My 01 RK also ran hot! Shop never did get it right..or could find the root of the problem.. Was told it takes a few thousand miles of break-in befor the bike settles in and proper adjustments could be made.... Anyway, I sold the bike befor I was able to continue trouble-shooting the problem.. I explained the break-in thingie to the new owner and he didn't seem to concerned at the time of purchase...... Now have a new 03 RK and so far it hasn't shown this type of problem.... no matter of what speeds or how long I ride for.... Bike even seems to run smoother and cooler then my 01 did........... Go Figure!

 

[chingon]

Give us an update as soon as you get some answers. I'm on my first HD and after riding water cooled metrics my Deuce feels like an oven in the summertime. I did get one of those dipstick temp gauge foreign made thingies and so if it says 225 then my front cylinder is really running at about 250 degrees oin the summer then. I read an interesting article that the TC88 was designeds and supposed to be oilcooled but styling and design turned it down, go figure. I live in the Hot Permian Basin and the majority of HD riders here don't add oil coolers or run synthetic.
Any how you problem is NOT normal and don't let them stick it to you. Be loud and proud and get them to fix your bike and give you a decent loaner while they have yours

 

[Dontdial911]

have the guys at the shop check the cam timing position sensor...mine did exactly the same thing yours did...and the shop fixed it in less than 1 hour. And yes..i could "feel" the engine was hotter than normal, though it had no problem running, it was baking the insides of my legs on a cool day. When that light comes on the computer has picked up something wrong in the system....thats its purpose. I wouldnt be shy to take it to a different shop either. I dont respect someone trying to sell u a 1000 upgrade to fix and existiing problem

 

[BHBandit]

There is no cam position sensor on the 03's

 

[Dontdial911]

Sorry....had no idea there was that change made from the 2001 TC88 and the 2003....oops

 

[UntamedSpirit]

Every area of the USA has a Harley District Rep. If your dealer gives you any crap about fixing it, call your district rep and have him put on the 'heat'. Don't accept anything less than perfect from your machine!

 

[Classichead]

Sorry about the 8 month delay. Turned out to be a lose spark plug wire where it go's into the coil. I have not had a ride on a hot day yet, but have gone to a synth. oil and everyone says 15 to 20 deg. cooler engine.
Thanks for all the response.

 

[Notactingmyage]

ECM Prevention of Engine Overheating

... built in Temperature Management in the ECM kicks in at 300F at the front temp head sensor. The bike will not overheat - particularly while moving unless there is a problem. If stopped and still running it won't overheat either as eventually at 300F+ the ECM will shut down 50% of your injector pulses.

Was talking to a buddy last night who experienced a "partial shutdown" of his 95" engine while idling in stopped traffic for about 30 minutes. He thought the ECM shut down the rear cylinder (ignition and fuel delivery), thereby allowing it to pump outside air through the cylinder to cool it. He said the cylinder immediately came back on line when the throttle was touched.

I had not read anything about this ECM "feature", either in the owners manual or shop manual and was surprised to learn about it. Perhaps I just missed it. Anyway, I was prompted to search the archives here and found a very old thread; extract quoted above. It suggests a slightly different process that I suppose could achieve similar results.

Does anyone know if/how this actually works? Or can you suggest an authoritative source of more detail along these lines? I would worry a lot less about hot weather operation (and fuel mixtures and a lot of other points of constant debate) if I knew more about how smart that little "brain" is and how it works...

Thanks.