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2002 Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide
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I have an 02 Dyna FXD with just over 90k in the clock and has been running great... up until monday. Decided to fix a persistent leak coming from my primary and when i got everything back together, the engine heats up extremely fast and acts like it has severe brake drag. I doubt this issue stemmed from the work i did in the primary but pulled it all back apart anyway and double checked the clutch and chain tension to eliminate those. For the last year or so on a cold start up the oil light would be on for about 45 to 60 seconds while at idle, but would go away with rpms. ive checked oil level which was admittedly low, filled and rode the bike home last night all seemed well until i got into town. the issue was back, wont rev very high whether in neutral or with a load. while riding its all i can do to get it to 50. WOT between shifts and as soon as i let off the trottle it immediately goes back to idle, where it used to slowly come back down in comparison. My question is has anyone experienced this, or maybe know the direction to head? Im by no means a Harley Tech. But Im very versed in aircooled vws and am a diesel mechanic by trade but this has me stumped and is making me pull my hair out. TIA
 

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Kinda acts like the crankcase is full of oil. Oil pump not evacuating the oil back to the tank making you think it's low. And the oil pump struggling to build pressure upon start up. Just a guess. The real Harley wrenches should be here soon.
 

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2002 Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide
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Discussion Starter #5
would that cause my driveability issues? no rev and all that? just new to harley motors and havent learned the quirks quit yet
 

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Sounds like you have 2 problems. 1. Drivability and 2. That long oil light.

What leak did you fix? Did it call for pulling the inner primary too? I know its the wrong side, but did you pull the pipes too? If it wasn't doing it before your repair job, but was after, kinda hard to avoid that linkage. Did you adjust the clutch by the book when you put it back together? One time, I replaced my clutch cable and got lazy, trying to just put it all back together, just like it was before. It ran OK, but I couldn't hardly get around the block. I had to go back home and do a proper clutch adjustment to solve that problem.

That 45-60 seconds oil light is way out of line. Hot or cold, it should go out about as soon as the motor starts to run on its own. You better figure that one out. Could be something as simple as a bad oil light switch. You're going to have to put a service gauge on it to see what pressure you have. Book calls for 30-38 psi at 2K, and 230°F. You can plumb it in place of the switch temporarily, or in line between the case and the switch if you mount a permanent gauge. I have seen the light last as long as 8-10 seconds, maybe even 15 seconds when using a filter without an anti drain-back valve.

What's your history with the bike? Any bike that old will probably have collected plenty of mods down through the years. It always helps to know if you're talking about OEM or aftermarket equipment.
 

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2002 Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide
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Discussion Starter #7
Ive had the bike for the last two years, put 30k of the 90 on it in that time. only aftermarket motor trans wise are the pipes. other various cosmetic mods ive personally rebuilt the carb a couple times triying to curb an intake leak only to have the bolts for the intake strip and unable to replace those gaskets. regardless bike ran great. one of the lower mounting bolts for the inner primary was stripped and oil was coming from there, helicoiled and reinstalled with all new gaskets and seals, reintalled everything by the book, proper tension on the pressure plate and cable, and proper adjustment on the chain. i agree its hard to not look at the work done as related but. like i said ran great for about 5 miles home then was super hot and these symptoms came back. Never did like the oil light situation but it was kind of a back burner thing at the time. my thought is maybe the filter or oil lines are clogged resulting in the pressure light, and overheating causing the cylinders to swell but it does it hot or cold and seemingly when it wants to.
 

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That light signals an improper circulation of oil. They go through a laundry list of things it might be. The oil leaves the pump and gets routed through the cam plate straight to the pressure switch and then into the filter before going back into the plate and then to the various places in the motor. If the pressure switch is good, then you have a long time with little to no oil for the motor. If you had too much pressure, then there is a bypass valve in the plate that will redirect oil back into the feed side of the pump, My manual says that bypass valve is set at 35 psi. There is a 4 or 5 page section in the shop manual that explains the oil system. This is all covered in detail. If you've been riding with the light situation for a year, I would think it was more of a problem with the switch, or maybe the wiring from the switch to the light. Are you getting oil return back into the pan?
 

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2002 Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide
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Discussion Starter #9
well thats the thing im concerned with is i check it before each ride and i do so by warming it up first and checking while hot. the other day after my test drive in which i played with everything, i pulled the stick and it was damn near dry after cleaning and pulling it back out to do my check. am i correct in thinking that say everything is seemingly working the way it should i.e. pump, pressure switch, filter and oil passages all doing what they need to but the return passage to the pan being clogged could cause a.) a restriction causing a low pressure issue and b.) flooding the crankcase to where im building too much pressure on the underside of the cylinders to run correctly? i run into that issue on diesels when an injector fails and contaminates the oil with fuel causing a similar situation. but i usually see a dipstick being pushed out due to the pressure. and i haven had that problem on the dyna
 

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I don't want to sound too scary, but you took an almost 20 year old bike that averaged about 3500-4000 miles a year, and bumped that up to 15K a year. Something might have let go inside. You say mostly stock, which would indicate that it still has the old style spring tensioners on the cam plate (unless you know they have been replaced or upgraded to the newer style hydraulic units). They are notorious for disintegrating and clogging up the various passages in the cam plate and throughout the motor. There's jets under the pistons that spray oil on the undersides of the pistons to help to cool them down.

There's a cover over the oil lines on the right side between the engine and transmission, You can pull it and the top line is the return to the tank. Might look there for flow. Also, you can remove a plug on the bottom of the engine cases to see if the cases are filling up with oil. The scavenge side of the pump should keep it to a small amount.

I would put the gauge on it to see if there is an oil pressure problem. And you know if there is, you're going to have to keep going until you find the problem. I don't think it's something you can ignore. At least you had 2 years of fun, carefree riding.
 

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2002 Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide
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Discussion Starter #11
I agree with you its an old machine and i was aware of the spring tensioner issues, I just never had the guts to pull the cam cover off. Basically a dont look a gift horse in the mouth type situation. That being said, say thats the issue and it having only presented itself in the last 12 miles of use; can i expect severe damage or a salvageable engine? I love the bike but its not worth the cost of a long block from harley and probably not worth a rebuild money-wise
 

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thats the thing about harleys,,,, if you love the bike,, fix it,,, its a toy you adore,, no other will be like it... if it were mine,,, i would either fix the one i have,,, or,, if the numbers were right,, a disassembled 124 would be in the cards.. then it would become an awesome ride,, the most fun you can have with your clothes on,, lol,,
 

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I have an 02 Dyna FXD with just over 90k in the clock ......But Im very versed in aircooled vws and am a diesel mechanic by trade but this has me stumped and is making me pull my hair out. TIA
First let me say I am not a Harley tech either but like you, I have considerable mechanical experience on other vehicles, mostly automobiles. I have a pretty good grasp on mechanical theory and I've done the topend on my '04 Road King as well as a lot of other work on the three bikes around here. I read a lot and try to learn from the real wrenches around here when I have some work to do on my bikes.

The issues you describe (engine heats up extremely fast and acts like it has severe brake drag, RPM immediately goes back to idle, low oil level in the tank, oil pressure issues, etc) sound a lot like "sumping" which is basically oil collecting in the crankcase when it should be evacuated to the oil tank. It could be just an oil pump problem or possibly a more severe problem. I'll leave a link to a few threads here that may help. Just a word of caution, not every reply is legit (including mine at times) and use extreme caution of you decide to check the volume of residual oil in the crankcase, should your troubleshooting take you there.

 

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this will be a bit long,,, bear with me, if you can

..the oil pump, tensioner shoes, crank runout, could all be related,, and cause all the issues you have,, however it needs a more in depth diagnosis, to determine what is actually the issue,, before taking it apart...

my thèory,, at this time is,,, the pinion shaft is out of specs in excessive runout,, ehich causes wear in and the eventual failure of the pump to operate as intended,,, resulting in oil collecting in the sump, low oil level in the oil pan, and -0- and /or low pressure before reaching the -0-, pressure.. also resulting in excessive heat in the lower cylinders at the cooling jet area,, also the entire cylinders being hotter than specs..

the process of the tensioner shoes is well documented on this forum,, no need to rehash it all in this post,,, also the sumping process is also well documented...

my guess would be,, an out of runout spec on the crank at the pinion,, fhis, in theory and actual practice, could cause sumping,, if sumping was severe,, the circulated oil which should be returned to the oil pan, is collecting in the bottom of the engine,,, since no oil would return to the tank after several minutes of normal riding time,, the oil pressure would drop,, since there is no oil in the tank to feed thd pressure side of the pump.. (since the pressure and return systems of the pump are integratrd in one housing,, and both driven by the pinion shaft,, if one system is affected, the other will be as well..

there is the setting for the symptoms,,, however, it must be confirmed,, i would.do this by draining the sump, through the drain plug on the bottom of the crankcase,, and note the amount of oil collected... i would also check the oil level in the pan... then, add enough oil to get the level up to the cold level,,, install the bottom case plug, and also install a temporary, mechanical service pressure gauge, that will be visible during the test ride.. and go for a ride,,, preferably with a chase vehicle, to load it up, if the pressure drops to -0-, again on the service gauge...

now take it home,, and then drain the sump after checking the oil level in the pan...

if::: the sump is again carrying alot of oil, the gauge read -0- pressure, and the oil pan, filled just before the ride is low,,, confirm the suspected diagnosis.. all in 1 test...

if you have a no contact laser temp gun, you can verify the exact engine temperatures in different locations,, the bottom of both cylinders,, the oil pan temp, cylinder head temp...

if all this has occured,, jt would justify opening the cam chest,, completely disassemble it, and inspect all components...this would be an opertune tine to do zome precision measurements,,,

after you do the checks please post the results,,, there are several here, who are excellent engine techs,,, i consider myself one of those... therm is also top notch, as is don dorfman, and turboprop..
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks Salty and Terry, everything that you both described is to a t what i was suspecting with the checks ive done and the symptoms im experiencing. The short ride i did last night started out the same no power and all that. with a couple heavy roll ons the condition disappeared and cooled down rather fast and ran fine. because of the mileage at this point (and the fact that ive not been particulaly nice to it over the years) i think i need to go ahead and open the cam chest to inspect the tensior and everything else inside. As stated before, I have no idea whats been done internally and when. I'd assume the tensioners been replaced at least once in its life but even then who really knows. Im leaning towards the hydraulic upgrade or switch to gear drive. Thats my course of attack for now and will post what i come up with.
Thanks for all your help
 

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If you're doing this yourself cold, never having been inside one of these motors before, I would recommend that you get a shop manual. There are a lot of things that could go wrong. Also, you won't know right away the difference between what Harley Davidson put in there, and what has been changed out in the past. I don't know if you could get enough information out of some youtube videos. That seems to be what a lot of people use for reference nowadays. But some of them are pretty well made and informative.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I do have a shop manual and have been looking at the process Thanks for all your guys' insight
 

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The short ride i did last night started out the same no power and all that. with a couple heavy roll ons the condition disappeared and cooled down rather fast and ran fine.
That would help me to believe that the crankshaft may not be part of the problem and possibly something else, like the O-ring that autoworker mentioned. Also, the crankshafts in 2002 and earlier were the better parts according to many. That's why it's critical that you check everything carefully rather than just throwing a fist full of parts at it. Tall terry and autoworker have helped me in the past and I trust their guidance but that's not to discount the other replies in this thread.
 

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Terry hits the highlights well. It is sumping and starts without pressure. If it were mine I would have the tank off, the rocker boxes removed, the cam chest apart, lifters out, oil pump removed, then make decisions based on a physical examination of the parts including a crank runout test.
 
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