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Old 06-08-2019, 12:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Ultima engine cases

Looking around on e bay this evening I found Ultima engine cases that say Evolution bottom end Twin cam top end. Would this be a good way to go for a big inch Evo build?
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Old 06-08-2019, 05:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have to ask-why TC top end?
Most all their heads have smaller valves then an EVO
Great for max velocity at HD road RPM...
I don't know if they are the best choice for performance

I would talk to some REAL performance shops B4 I transposed into the unknowns.
The Net is full of people who repeat what others have said and yet have done nothing themselves.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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TC top end on an evo is a Fatvo. Its not as easy as just bolting the stuff together.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks. I was just curious about them. I’m pretty ignorant to building HD motors . Actually I’m getting fairly well educated through this forum and YouTube. There is a build in the near future for me. Just not sure which direction I’m going to go yet.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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There two schools of thought-
Bolt on the inches, or massage what you have.
The latter takes more finesse.
In either case, if you shoot for one to one you will have a lot more then HD. They are about 60 to 70 %
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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tall terry is still riding a stock bike tall terry is still riding a stock bike
bolt on the inches and massage what you are bolting on... so many small things lead to more power and reliability...
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbf98520 View Post
Looking around on e bay this evening I found Ultima engine cases that say Evolution bottom end Twin cam top end. Would this be a good way to go for a big inch Evo build?
Very good way to go. The TC heads and cylinders in their oem form have much better cooling thanks to larger and more cooling fins. The heads are much more efficient and will typically be in much better condition that even the most cherry evo castings and have potential to support a lot more horse power than factory evo castings. Plus there is the improved head vent system, leak free rocker boxes, abundance of inexpensive heads and cylinders, etc, etc. Everything about a FATVO is better than an oem based EVO engine. Everything.

The Ultima castings (heads, cylinders and cases) are known to be of pretty high quality. Much better than any of the evo stuff harley ever put out their doors.

I have built two FATVO engines. One using Ultima cases and another using the now unobtainium Delkron cases. Each had their pros and cons but I think the Ultima was the better of the two right out of the box. This could be a simple bolt together engine, but an good machinist will get a lot more than someone just bolting one together.

Do yourself a favor and search 'FATVO' on this forum and every other harley forum you are on. This forum has two full pages of threads to read. Everything about this engine has already been said countless times here.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I did a little Fatvo recon before I went 106" with my Evo. The TC top end will get you to 100" if you have a 3.875" bore on the TC cylinders using the 4.25" stroker crank, but you have to have the pushrod tube holes in the head modified to fit the new pushrod angles.

Probably why it's going for pretty cheap on eBay, nobody builds them anymore.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I did a little Fatvo recon before I went 106" with my Evo. The TC top end will get you to 100" if you have a 3.875" bore on the TC cylinders using the 4.25" stroker crank, but you have to have the pushrod tube holes in the head modified to fit the new pushrod angles.

Probably why it's going for pretty cheap on eBay, nobody builds them anymore.
Thanks Mattbastard. Why do you think nobody is building them anymore?
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks Mattbastard. Why do you think nobody is building them anymore?
Not true. Way too much misinformation and here say. Good grief.

I saw three of them being built last week in the little town I live in and the Fatso cases are readily available. Plenty of shops have the capability and are willing to relocate the pushrod tubes.

http://www.ultimaproducts.com/enginecases.html

http://www.ultimaproducts.com/fatso.html
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:24 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kbf98520 View Post
Thanks Mattbastard. Why do you think nobody is building them anymore?
I don't THINK they're as popular as they used to be now that S&S has created their Special Application cases that come with piston oil jets and it bolts right up in a stock Evo location, and go all the way up to 124".

Think about it, when it comes to feasible, tried and true builds you've got:

96" in the stock, Evo cases with case boring
100" in the Fatvo with some head work and a longer pinion shaft in Evo crank w/ .927 end rods
Up to 124" with the S&S SA cases

The Fatvo case is similar to the SA case, it's just got cylinder stud spacing for the TC top end where the SA case is spaced for the S&S cylinders and top ends. You've still gotta modify the heads to work with the Evo pushrod geometry, and you have to have the 1/4" longer pinion shaft and Fatso rods installed on your Evo crankshaft (and subsequently trued and balanced) to make the Fatvo bottom end work. All that adds to the costs, and you're still stuck with an engine under no warranty. The S&S engines come with one, and bolt right up with no downtime. Granted, the 124" is MUCH more expensive depending on your build specs, but after my 106" Evo build I've given up building engine combinations that aren't very popular. Call it what you will, I just feel better building engines that many other people have done rather then me being a guinea pig.

Having said all that, Ultima also offers a Fatso short block that comes with the crank and proper rods and all you need is a TC top end (with proper pushrod holes).

Last edited by Mattbastard; 06-10-2019 at 07:30 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thank you Sir
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Back when 113's were at the top of the evo food chain, Fatvo's gave you 100 inches for less money out of pocket.

Then when the 120+ inch evos showed up, the Fatvo's died right along with the 113's.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Personal Opinion Here:

I would never build another Evo, regardless of the crankcase. If you leave one in completely stock form, or at least Stage 1, you'll be ok, but anything after that should be avoided. Also considering I easily managed to get a 2000 Twin Cam engine and transmission into my 1994 Road King, why not get rid of older technology and go with newer?

PM me if you want more details on my opinion and why the TC is just a better engine.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Matt
i don't think anyone needs to PM you-
You are allowed to agree/disagree with other thoughts on here.
You might have a good one.
Or I might disagree with it .
No matter.
It would great if you just say whatever is on your mind.
It is all a learning curve.
We all have different experiances to draw from.
As for me, so far I have run with a passion from the Twinks!
It seems the net is overwhelmed with out of phase wheels, cam chest that is good for about 30K.
As I always say "no matter what HD you choose they all come with congenital defects and it is a matter of what you are familiar with and what you want to fix.
The M8 has already had a ration of problems.
My favorite engine case would be a Delkron 4 cam Big twin .
Albeit I have never owned one it would seem to be the best of all worlds.
They are just not available anymore.
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