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Old 04-03-2018, 10:29 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Stiction is worn out injector drive binding up. All kinds of high dollar additives to out there to treat it. Most are real heavy on additives that the EPA has restricted as far as use in motor oil goes.

And any change in fuel economy is related to what the injector is doing, not what is poured into the oil. The worn injectors don't open fully, so they start hard, or not at all when cold. And they have a poor spray pattern. If you get worse fuel economy with the additive, it would most likely be related to the injectors not opening fully without it, and causing a lean condition.

When you follow one of those Ford power strokes and it's burning your eyes out, its because the injectors are bad and its running lean. The lean burn pumps out NOx by the pound, and that's what burns your eyes and nose.

I have a good friend who makes his living from fixing/replacing those Power Strokes. He says it's the best thing ford ever did for him.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I have a good friend who makes his living from fixing/replacing those Power Strokes. He says it's the best thing ford ever did for him.
Replacing them with what? 12v Cummins?

I'm just here for the beer.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Replacing them with what? 12v Cummins?

I'm just here for the beer.
With rebuilt power strokes.
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:54 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I get a kick out of these oil threads...this is one of those areas where the science doesn't lie.
And yet there is room for opinions and experiential renditions.

;-)
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:57 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I get a kick out of these oil threads...this is one of those areas where the science doesn't lie.
And yet there is room for opinions and experiential renditions.

;-)
But do you learn anything?

I'm just here for the beer.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:35 PM   #51 (permalink)
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But do you learn anything?

I'm just here for the beer.
Sure: uniformity takes up more space in a given space.

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Old 04-04-2018, 10:03 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Anyone up for a best tire discussion?
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:36 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Anyone up for a best tire discussion?
I think it should be Margarine vs Butter.
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Old 04-04-2018, 12:33 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I think it should be Margarine vs Butter.
LOL upon investigation I believe you are correct.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:28 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Greg_E wants to know Dino or Syn?
Yes, I need new tires. And specifically ones that will be carried at Microbore because the cost to mount/balance will be included in the price and I don't want to be bothered with changing them myself. I do have an extra set of wheels which makes life easier.
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:50 PM   #56 (permalink)
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09DesertGlide is reading this now saying WTF is this? 09DesertGlide is reading this now saying WTF is this?
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Originally Posted by georgedouglas View Post
I have had totally different results than what you point out in hundreds of power stroke customers since Ford started using the international engine and then when they went to the Powerstroke fuel injection system back in 1993 where oil is used for the hydraulic muscle power to open and close the injectors. The 6.0 engine you have is the worst diesel engine Ford came out with after finally getting all the bugs worked out of the 7.3. That engine has created an entire new cottage industry of bullet proofing it with new head bolts, injectors, and other mods. This Stiction you talk about is a newly created term created by those that monetarily benefit from selling additives to mask the real problem of poor injectors and or inferior oil that doesn't stand up to the entire oil change interval. RevX is a high priced rip off that many petroleum oil users buy into.

You state you are a mechanic so you must know how the oil pressure is jacked up and sent to the high pressure reservoir in your 6.0 and when you change your oil you still have a few quarts of used oil in the system. You should also know that if using an oil that has poor anti-foaming agents in it's oil will cause the injectors to operate like crap once those agents are used up and now the oil gets to much foam. Hydraulics don't operate well with foam in the system of course. This was the initial problem Ford had in the 7.3 where the oils of that day wouldn't stand up to this high pressure system for the injectors and their anti-foaming agents went south. Ford would just change the oil under warranty and everything was good again for a few more miles. You should also know that an oil at operating temperature has the same thickness no matter if it is dino or synthetic. You should also know that noise does not relate to wear. If that was true your noisy diesel engine would self destruct from the combustion noise it makes. If noise related to wear why do the UOA reports show less wear in PPM using Amsoil for example or at least equal? Take a look at some of the oil reports on this forum to prove my point. Also you should know that no metal to metal contact is happening because of the noise and if it was the oil itself has sacrificial additives to plate out the metal so this doesn't happen for example when making cold starts where some oils are a little slower at making the oil circuit. I could go on and on about oils and diesels, as I have 6 diesels presently all using synthetics for years and guess what, none of them have had your experience. I also have a Powerstroke that runs very nice without your Stiction problem.

You have your opinions and that's fine, but you have no facts to back up your concern with wear. How many UOA samples have you pulled to check your fears of wear when you hear noise? What about the noise you hear when you first shift to first gear from neutral in your bike? Does that cause wear? If so then that would also show up on UOA reports. I have taken many samples on the HD tranny and guess what no wear. When I grew up in the fifties many used car lots would put saw dust in noisy manual shift transmissions to quiet them down. No noise now, but just because it was quiet did that fix anything?
george
LOL! So, since saw dust can stop the noise, noise is OKAY!!

Do you sell saw dust, too?

The 6.0 is not a Ford engine. All the bullet proofing is because of damage caused by performance chips, not oil. The oil is not what stretches the head bolts.

Yes, I've installed the bullet proof kit on mine. It added one quart to the oil capacity. Much better filtration and cooling, in my opinion.

You're an oil salesman, I get it. Sell it!

The oils that were available and used when the 6.0 came out are not the same oils of today. The engine needs the mineral oil. That's what I've proven to myself over the last 40K miles. I didn't read it somewhere, or have a monthly sales conference meeting where they told me this.

RevX is expensive. That part you got right. If you have stiction and you dump one 4oz bottle in your engine, the stiction will be gone the next day. I've seen on two vehicles, one was mine.

I am a mechanic, a hands on mechanic. If I couldn't do what I do well, then I'd probably sell stuff to those who do!

Last edited by 09DesertGlide; 04-04-2018 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 04-04-2018, 03:02 PM   #57 (permalink)
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09DesertGlide is reading this now saying WTF is this? 09DesertGlide is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermodyne View Post
Stiction is worn out injector drive binding up. All kinds of high dollar additives to out there to treat it. Most are real heavy on additives that the EPA has restricted as far as use in motor oil goes.

And any change in fuel economy is related to what the injector is doing, not what is poured into the oil. The worn injectors don't open fully, so they start hard, or not at all when cold. And they have a poor spray pattern. If you get worse fuel economy with the additive, it would most likely be related to the injectors not opening fully without it, and causing a lean condition.

When you follow one of those Ford power strokes and it's burning your eyes out, its because the injectors are bad and its running lean. The lean burn pumps out NOx by the pound, and that's what burns your eyes and nose.

I have a good friend who makes his living from fixing/replacing those Power Strokes. He says it's the best thing ford ever did for him.
Mostly good stuff Therm.
A lean running engine will produce better fuel mileage, in my opinion. When my injectors failed, they failed in such a way that caused a rich condition. Probably better than a lean condition since the lean condition would also create more heat.

The oil is what causes the injectors to fail. It can be one of two things, in my opinion and based on what I've learned. Not changing the oil when required, which allows a lot of contaminants into the HPFP and into the injector. The other is using the wrong oil.

I also have a couple friends that have made a lot of money working on the 6.0.

Last edited by 09DesertGlide; 04-04-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 04-04-2018, 03:28 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Anyone up for a best tire discussion?
Um, yes.

Is it true that the Dunlop tire company uses a special rubber for the tires they sell to HD? And that that's why people get better mileage out of those tires?
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:10 PM   #59 (permalink)
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LOL! So, since saw dust can stop the noise, noise is OKAY!!

Do you sell saw dust, too?

The 6.0 is not a Ford engine. All the bullet proofing is because of damage caused by performance chips, not oil. The oil is not what stretches the head bolts.

Yes, I've installed the bullet proof kit on mine. It added one quart to the oil capacity. Much better filtration and cooling, in my opinion.

You're an oil salesman, I get it. Sell it!

The oils that were available and used when the 6.0 came out are not the same oils of today. The engine needs the mineral oil. That's what I've proven to myself over the last 40K miles. I didn't read it somewhere, or have a monthly sales conference meeting where they told me this.

RevX is expensive. That part you got right. If you have stiction and you dump one 4oz bottle in your engine, the stiction will be gone the next day. I've seen on two vehicles, one was mine.

I am a mechanic, a hands on mechanic. If I couldn't do what I do well, then I'd probably sell stuff to those who do!
I have been a licensed mechanic since 1969 and made my early living turning wrenches for over 30 years. I have had tons of training through the years and hardly any of it, while being a mechanic, pertained to oil other than systems and troubleshooting. I have not run into many mechanics that know anything about oil. I have been using and selling synthetics since 1981 and have many very sharp mechanics who operate their own shops as customers and they use me as their oil resource when questions do come up. Any mechanic that blames a problem based on the type of oil used is just a parts changer.
george
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:37 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Greg_E wants to know Dino or Syn?
Full synthetic has always made my vehicles run better, lower temperatures (air cooled), run more quietly, and have better fuel mileage (may be slight). Longevity hasn't ever really been a problem with cars because they all rust out before the engine gives out.

Full synthetic has also always made my manual gearboxes shift better.

That's my experience and I expect that manufacturers like Ford and Chevy agree because the factory fill is either full synthetic, or blended synthetic in the last two cars I've owned. Mercedes (where both of my brothers work) is full synthetic factory fill and required for each oil change. There must be reasons other than deals with oil companies or some form of greed.

But I'm just another idiot on the internet, so maybe my observations and used oil analysis through Blackstone is worthless. But I'm also not selling oil and pick my oil based on performance and supply. My choices have been reinforced by the testing that AMSoil has done to compare their products to other products. I've also read up on what makes a synthetic labeled oil, and what makes a full synthetic oil (George will know what I'm referring to as AMSoil is a full synthetic that is properly marketed).

And then there will be the people that claim no oil can be fully synthetic, somewhere some plant/animal material had to decay to make the raw chemicals in the mix... Yeah I get it but that is picking nits.

I will say that I've also used "special" break in oil, Joe Gibbs Racing markets one such oil which has lots of extra additives to help protect moving parts and set them up for decent running. Damn expensive that stuff is and I probably won't do that again. I'd like to read what George thinks on those oils because I'm not convinced they are needed with modern materials. Haven't really studied up on break in oils as there is little info out there, and some of it seems a little like snake oil. A separate thread on break in oils would be appreciated so I can learn a bit more.
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