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Old 07-22-2010, 01:47 PM   #61 (permalink)
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257bob wants to know Dino or Syn?
Where do the numbers in the "Universal Averages" column come from?

Is that a new oil reference sample?
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:34 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 257bob View Post
Where do the numbers in the "Universal Averages" column come from?

Is that a new oil reference sample?
Not sure how Blackstone comes up with those numbers, but they should mean the average wear expectations for that type of motor based on the OEM's recommended oil change service. The OEM determines what is normal wear that the labs generally use for reference. I have OEM data for many diesel manufactures that state the aceptable wear for each oil service. For example Cummins will state 60 PPM of iron is normal and Detroit may state 150 PPM iron is normal. So all engines are different when it comes to determining if the engine is wearing normal or abnormal. That is why it is critical to give the lab accurate information as far as eninge model and oil used, as well as how much time is on the oil being tested. I hope this explanation helps.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:29 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 257bob View Post
Where do the numbers in the "Universal Averages" column come from?

Is that a new oil reference sample?
no.

From the reports I've seen, it is simply a running average of what he has in his database.

How restrictive the sort is, I don't know.

I don't run my program that way. Too much of a chance for creep to set in and next thing you know you have an issue the alarms didn't catch.

In my Program, I set hard limits. One machines results do not affect the acceptability of its sisters.

For Blackstone, dealing with consumers, it makes some sense. you guys have no basis for good or bad except what you read.

In that way, his averages are a decent tool.

I would like to know if he flags and eliminates the outliers. Failures, ground up machines, wrong oils, etc.
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Last edited by RobertC; 07-23-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 07-23-2010, 12:02 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Thanks for the two replies.

I suppose the universal averages would be a way to key in on a problem on a first sample. Machine history and trend analysis will certainly give better data over the life of the machine; that's how we base our program where I work.

The last time I had sampling done, I sent in new oil reference samples so we would know where we were starting from.

I get the impression that a lot of riders that get involved more than superficially are just interested in how long their oil is really good for. It takes some study to start to understand the whole tribology concept and what can be done when you start being more engaged than just "dump and fill". I had a guy tell me a while back about how he had changed the oil in a friend's bike so often that it was clear every time they changed it now. I didn't bother saying anything to him, I figured he was too far gone.

On the subject of oil serviceability for the layman, have you guys ever played around with "Blotter Spot" testing?
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Yes, I d blotters on occassion.
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:38 PM   #66 (permalink)
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2008 FLHX with 19,200 miles. Mobil 1 15w50

Here is the oil report from my Street Glide.

I changed the oil 500 miles earlier than usual for a long trip.

I too have been using Mobil 1 15w50 for about 8 years in my bikes. I can't believe that syn 3 or Mobil V-twin can do better for almost double the cost.

The only reason I can think that the viscosity shows low is because of it being so hot down here in Charleston, SC. I do run an oil cooler, but will see temps up to about 250 once on a while if stopped in traffic.
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Last edited by kslg; 08-05-2010 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 08-05-2010, 06:11 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kslg View Post
Here is the oil report from my Street Glide.

I changed the oil 500 miles earlier than usual for a long trip.

I too have been using Mobil 1 15w50 for about 8 years in my bikes. I can't believe that syn 3 or Mobil V-twin can do better for almost double the cost.

The only reason I can think that the viscosity shows low is because of it being so hot down here in Charleston, SC. I do run an oil cooler, but will see temps up to about 250 once on a while if stopped in traffic.
Thanks for posting!!
I also run 15-50 but mine has ran 300+ for extended periods and my viscosity was within tolerance. My report is the first one. Weird.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:21 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kslg View Post
Here is the oil report from my Street Glide.

I changed the oil 500 miles earlier than usual for a long trip.

I too have been using Mobil 1 15w50 for about 8 years in my bikes. I can't believe that syn 3 or Mobil V-twin can do better for almost double the cost.

The only reason I can think that the viscosity shows low is because of it being so hot down here in Charleston, SC. I do run an oil cooler, but will see temps up to about 250 once on a while if stopped in traffic.
This is a very good sample. Don't worry about the viscosity being too low as the wear is what you are most interested in. For some reason Harleys tend to shear the viscosity down to the next lower grade, but I have never seen it relate to increased wear probably because of the roller bearings. It would be more of a concern if the Harley used journal bearings.
george
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:57 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I sent the question of viscosity to Blackstone and they responded within about an hour.

Your answer is almost verbatim to their response which follows:

"Scott: Thanks for the e-mail. A low viscosity that's not due to any
fuel is often a mystery. Some types of engines tend to shear down
oils more than others, though we have not noticed this necessarily
from the Twin Cam 96 engine. All oils tend to shear down after that
are put into use and some do it worse than others. 15W/50 and 20W/50
commonly drop down to the 40W range (like your sample), and excess
heat may cause a lot of that, though prolonged exposure to heat will
tend to cause the viscosity to increase. If a low viscosity is the
only unusual finding, we don't tend to worry about it so much. Sorry
I could not give you a better answer."


To me that was a great answer.
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Last edited by kslg; 08-06-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:00 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:54 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I'll contribute mine to the thread. This is the first analysis I've ever done on my bike. I've owned it since Feb of 1996 and have changed the oil every 1500 miles or so, give or take. Overkill for some, but an old-time biker friend of mine suggested it and at the time oil was cheap and I just fell into the pattern. I might move ahead to 2500 mile intervals, seems reasonable.

The oil from this sample was in the bike for 6 days. I was on a trip and riding about 350 miles a day at various elevations and temperatures. (Boulder, CO to Santa Cruz, CA)

Enjoy!

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Old 08-20-2010, 11:22 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I'll contribute mine to the thread. This is the first analysis I've ever done on my bike. I've owned it since Feb of 1996 and have changed the oil every 1500 miles or so, give or take. Overkill for some, but an old-time biker friend of mine suggested it and at the time oil was cheap and I just fell into the pattern. I might move ahead to 2500 mile intervals, seems reasonable.

The oil from this sample was in the bike for 6 days. I was on a trip and riding about 350 miles a day at various elevations and temperatures. (Boulder, CO to Santa Cruz, CA)
Enjoy!
Looks good, almost like new .
Thanks for posting.
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Old 08-22-2010, 06:43 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tym4brk View Post
I'll contribute mine to the thread. This is the first analysis I've ever done on my bike. I've owned it since Feb of 1996 and have changed the oil every 1500 miles or so, give or take. Overkill for some, but an old-time biker friend of mine suggested it and at the time oil was cheap and I just fell into the pattern. I might move ahead to 2500 mile intervals, seems reasonable.

The oil from this sample was in the bike for 6 days. I was on a trip and riding about 350 miles a day at various elevations and temperatures. (Boulder, CO to Santa Cruz, CA)

Enjoy!

This is a good sample, but all it is telling you is that your engine is running good and if this is what you wanted to find out then great. Torco oil is a good oil of course, but if you use this sample to guide you on longer intervals or any change in your maintenance schedule it is not going to help you there as it was only used for 6 days of easy riding on the open road, which is the easiest workload on any oil. Time on the oil is more important than just the miles as this is where some of the additives come into play. I see this oil is loaded with moly. Looks like the lab did not know that the oil was used for only 6 days and they got the engine size wrong. Got to make sure the info given them is accurate as this helps them make their recommendations.
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Last edited by georgedouglas; 08-23-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:50 AM   #74 (permalink)
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This is a good sample, but all it is telling you is that your engine is running good and if this is what you wanted to find out then great.
That is exactly what I wanted to find out.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:08 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Vindex, I am a little surprised that we aren't getting a little more questioning on these reports. where did the nay sayers go concerning using oil this long and have 60% less wear than what typically occurs?
george
Cool..... Someone actually taking Amsoil up on the extended OCI.

It would be interesting to see what these OCI's look like after 20k. It seems the wear metals fall off at that point.

Someone has to be a naysayer though. Your 60% less wear is more than double my Dino wear at 5k.
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