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Old 02-24-2009, 08:37 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp130 View Post
I've never had a post 1950s transmission in any of my Harley motorcycles. I now have a bike with a 2000-2004 Indian five speed that has been modified to electric/kick start. I have been told it was built by Rev Tech(?) and has ATF in it. I can't get to neutral with my foot. I have to kill the motor and play with the shifter with my hand to find it. Shifts very hard & I have never had that problem when using engine oil or gear lube in my other, older, trannies. The two places I have taken it say that it should have ATF in it!?! So--should it be running this stuff & I just need to make some adjustments or am I getting bad info? I have read a lot of the ATF threads, but most of it has to do with the primary & I need to know about the tranny.

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p.s. Hi Titch
ATF in the transmission is a bad idea. Fine in the primary, but not in the transmission.

See what Indian originally spec'd for the transmission. If you can't find out, try Mobil 1 75w90. I'm confident you will be able to find neutral with no problem with that in there--and your tranny will be a lot quieter and smoother, too.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:16 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp130 View Post
Rev Tech(?)

I've heard of them referred to as Rev-Sh**. My neighbor has an Indian and has had only problems.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:26 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaseven View Post
For Harley applications the only fluid you need to be concerned with is DexronIII/Mercon. If you want to use a synthetic just make sure it's compatible with Dex/Merc.

You can use Type F but you'll notice the clutch engages much quicker or harsher and it's not nearly as good at lubricating metal because it's essentially pure mineral oil with a red dye added. It will allow the clutch to hold better in extreme duty or racing apps though so it still has a place for some riders.
Just to clarify, Type F is not "pure mineral oil with red dye." It's a fully formulated ATF with all the usual ATF additives, but without friction modifiers. It is, IMO, the preferred ATF for use in Harley primaries with a totally stock Harley clutch.* Why?

Think about how the clutch works and what's happening as you gradually release the clutch leaver and start to ride off. As you release the lever the spinning clutch plates start coming together. But because they are coated in oil, the first things that actually contact each other between the plates is the film of oil coating each of the plates. If you use Dexron or Mercon, it is at this point where the friction modifiers are going to do their thing and limit friction and delay the clutch engagement. So you keep letting out the clutch lever more and more until finally enough of the ATF gets squeezed out and the clutch engages.

Now, if you use Type F, which does not have friction modifiers, clutch engagement will begin sooner as you let out the clutch lever because there are no friction modifiers to reduce the friction beyond what the oil film itself is inherently capable of. The clutch engagement should feel more linear with Type F than with Dexron/Mercon.

*If you have an aftermarket clutch and the maker says to use Dexron, then, of course, use Dexron.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:25 AM   #64 (permalink)
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I had problems finding neutral while stopped with the engine
running. I switched to ATF Dexron and problem solved.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:51 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Thumbs up

Okay you oil/ATF guru's have talked me into going with Mobil 1 Syn into my primary hole. I am just amazed at the SME's (System Matter Experts) that are on this forum. Some less than SME bunged up some threads on my outer primary prior to my owning it and I scored a primary, inner and outer, off from e-bay (Elvis missed this one). I have been debating on what juice to use after replacing it and viola......Thanks to all who share there knowledge with the rest of us as so we can learn.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:37 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Okay, I made the switch to ATF and what a difference in the shifting characteristics. Theres no going back to OIL in my primary.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:41 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I have a question for you papaseven? I liked your post on atf and agree with it, but when my 2 kids raced motocross ( 14 years ) I used dextron II and cut it with straight non detergent 30 wt 50 % to 50% for 125 cc bikes or 20-20wt non detergent for the 250 cc bikes and the reason was to get the clutch to grab and feel the way the rider needed it to. Ran those formulas and never in 14 years lost a tranny, bearing or clutch and racing motocross especially in the mud the clutch will take a beating. just my experence and 2 cents from my time in racing.But my question is Did you ever do what we did and your thoughts on it?
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:37 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary7 View Post
Just to clarify, Type F is not "pure mineral oil with red dye." It's a fully formulated ATF with all the usual ATF additives, but without friction modifiers. It is, IMO, the preferred ATF for use in Harley primaries with a totally stock Harley clutch.* Why?

Think about how the clutch works and what's happening as you gradually release the clutch leaver and start to ride off. As you release the lever the spinning clutch plates start coming together. But because they are coated in oil, the first things that actually contact each other between the plates is the film of oil coating each of the plates. If you use Dexron or Mercon, it is at this point where the friction modifiers are going to do their thing and limit friction and delay the clutch engagement. So you keep letting out the clutch lever more and more until finally enough of the ATF gets squeezed out and the clutch engages.

Now, if you use Type F, which does not have friction modifiers, clutch engagement will begin sooner as you let out the clutch lever because there are no friction modifiers to reduce the friction beyond what the oil film itself is inherently capable of. The clutch engagement should feel more linear with Type F than with Dexron/Mercon.

*If you have an aftermarket clutch and the maker says to use Dexron, then, of course, use Dexron.
I do a lot of high temp city riding,i didn't like the feel of the b&m or type f. I finally settled on amsoil universal syn. atf.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:48 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Glad I took the time to read through the replys in this post. I am pro Amsoil all the way! I just had a convesation with George on using a 10W ATF, (Amsoil Super Shift) in the primary, and it is now becoming clear that I will be using it in my own bike, (06 Classic), and I'm sure that I will be swapping all my customers over to it after I get the "real feel" of it. Not the right place for this but I have been using the Severe Gear 75W-90 in the trans, (EVO'S and TC'S), but will be swapping them allout to 75W-140 Severe Gear.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:34 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Click here for an excellent article on ATFs.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:41 AM   #71 (permalink)
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ATF In Primary... SWEET

Long time VT Forum Member - First Time Poster

Read and learned all about ATF in Primary from you guys and finally took the plunge. There's no going back now, my Dyna shifts, dare I say, like a Japanese bike.

I used Castrol Type F and am very pleased! I believe that if ATF is used in transmissions and transfer cases of cars and trucks, it will be perfect for the goings on in a HD primary.

Thanks for all the great info, guys!!
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Old 07-31-2009, 06:40 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Yep, ATF does wonders for clutch action.
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Old 08-08-2009, 03:38 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I just posted about making the switch. I love the ATF in the primary. Better then anything else I have tried.
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:57 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Ok, I read this whole thread. So seems there is some conflict.

One expert says use the Dextron/Merc (i.e. Mobil 1 ATF)

AND

One expert says use Type F.

So whats the one to use?

Using it in a 100hp/100tq engine (if that matters at all)
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:34 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loc123000 View Post
Ok, I read this whole thread. So seems there is some conflict.

One expert says use the Dextron/Merc (i.e. Mobil 1 ATF)

AND

One expert says use Type F.

So whats the one to use?

Using it in a 100hp/100tq engine (if that matters at all)
If you've got one of the aftermarket clutches that recommends Dexron, use that. Otherwise, Type F (like B&M Trick Shift.)
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