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Old 11-16-2008, 01:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Geno,

Thanks for the write up.

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Old 11-16-2008, 08:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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wow..can't say i have read a more well written topic than that...wow..really informative....got me wanting to change to atf in my primary..and i probably will...never really thought of it ,but it makes really good sense ...thanks alot.......
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Old 11-17-2008, 07:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Good write up, didn't want it to get lost in the shuffle so I made it a "Sticky"
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Old 11-17-2008, 12:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thanks BOB! This is a really good one! Way to go Geno!
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaseven View Post
Synthetic ATF comes in many formulations but the most common is Dexron III. It has the same properties of clutch engagement as Dexron III with some advantages. The main advantage of synthetic fluid is it's ability to resist thermal breakdown. If you ride in extreme heat or just want to extend your primary fluid change intervals then this is probably your fluid. You may want to think about this too. Although the primary doesn't generate much heat in and of itself that's not the only concern when choosing a fluid.The primary on your motorcycle is not a seperate entity. It is attached to the engine and it acts as a giant heatsink for that engine. The temps seen on a long hard run are probably within 20-40 degress of the engine oil temp.Mineral based ATF starts to break down at around 220 degrees and is almost useless as a lubricant at 250 degrees. On most Harley's the rear exhaust is in close proximity to the primary case and that adds heat too.I have measured the temp on my primary after a hard run and have never seen temps above 180 degrees but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If you ride loaded, two up, in heavy traffic, the desert, or alot of hard pulls in the mountains then you'll probably see temps over 200 degrees. Personally I use any major brand of regular Dexron III and change it out every 5000 miles but if I did alot of the riding described above I would probably use synthetic (although I am a cheap old bastard).Geno
Geno

Your post really hit home after riding my bike today in 34 degree weather I could hardly find neutral and it shifted horrible until it warmed up. What is your opinion of the Mobil 1 synthetic ATF ? When I was drag racing my vette none of the automatic transmission builders would recommend it they either said it was too slippery or did'nt know. So I ignored them and used it anyway with no problems. I have several cases of the Mobil ATF laying around and I was thinking about using it in my 2008 FXDL primary case what are your thoughts on this ? What oils do you run in your transmission and engine ?

Thanks >>>>> Inthered
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Last edited by INTHERED; 11-23-2008 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 11-23-2008, 08:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I'm not geno. But, I run M1 ATF DexronIII in my primary. Never had any slippage with over 100 tq. Finding neutral is a snap now. No more 1st gear clunk either.
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Old 11-23-2008, 09:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Syn Tranny oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INTHERED View Post
Geno

Your post really hit home after riding my bike today in 34 degree weather I could hardly find neutral and it shifted horrible until it warmed up. What is your opinion of the Mobil 1 synthetic ATF ? When I was drag racing my vette none of the automatic transmission builders would recommend it they either said it was too slippery or did'nt know. So I ignored them and used it anyway with no problems. I have several cases of the Mobil ATF laying around and I was thinking about using it in my 2008 FXDL primary case what are your thoughts on this ? What oils do you run in your transmission and engine ?

Thanks >>>>> Inthered
No problems at all using the Mobil 1 in your primary. It's good stuff.
You won't notice any difference in clutch engagement between synthetic or dino fluid. they both have to meet the same criteria and that includes friction coefficients.
You can easily run the synthetic for 10,000 miles in the primary between changes.

I run primarily Valvoline 20w50 in my engine and Mobile 1 85-140 gear oil in my tranny.
But as I said in my post below, most of my riding is trips of over 100 miles and at least 3000 miles a month. No idling or traffic so my oil never sees high temps.
If could afford it I would probably run either Amsoil or Mobil 1 in my engine and change it at 5000-6000 mile intervals.
That said ,with my riding style my oil comes out at 3500 miles looking only slightly darker than it went in and the engine is spotless.

I change my tranny oil every 10,000 and the magnet only has light fuzz on it.

Geno
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Old 11-23-2008, 10:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Geno

Thanks for all the info I really appreciate it. Iam not trying talk you into a different tranny oil since I have the M1 85/140 on the shelf in my garage but what made you choose the 85/140 over the M1 75/90 ?

One last question. If the difference between the Mobil 1 15w50 automotive oil and the M1 20w50 V-twin oil is mainly in the additive package to keep the wet clutch from slipping then would'nt it make sense to run the automotive 15w50 M1 in my engine since it is formulated for that application ?

Thanks >>>>> Mike
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Exactly!

Why use the 10-12 buck a quart V-twin if the only difference is in a friction modifier for the wet clutch and I can't see that that's a fact either
My two boys 250 ninja and 600RR both use regular Mobil 1 in both of their bikes and the clutches work fine.
If anybody can test that it would be my 20 year old. If he's not riding on the back tire then he ain't having no fun!

I like the 85-140 because it gets over a 100 degrees where I live for 4-5 months a year.
The 75-90 will do fine, it's just that the stock transmissions are relatively old school technology that's been used since the 40's
Nothing wrong with that cause they're great tranny's but the 140 seems to do a better job of quieting them down.

Geno
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Have you seen the price diff between the M1 85/140 and the 75/90? Amazing, as both should cost the same! I use the M1 75/80, as I like a thinner fluid to help with cold shifting. Both products are top notch products and should extend the trans life over dino fluid.

I too use ATF in my primary. Huge improvement in clutch release and made finding neutral much easier.

Last edited by muleskinner; 11-25-2008 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:53 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
Have you seen the price diff between the M1 85/140 and the 75/90? Amazing, as both should cost the same! I use the M1 75/80, as I like a thinner fluid to help with cold shifting. Both products are top notch products and should extend the trans life over dino fluid.

I too use ATF in my primary. Huge improvement in clutch release and made finding neutral much easier.
The reason there is a price difference between a 90 weight and a 140 is the cost of the additives. The rising cost of chemicals and additives has been the driving force over the last few years of lubricant oil prices.
george
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:31 AM   #27 (permalink)
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No shelf life>

As long as it's still sealed then it's just fine.
No shelf life on any modern lubricants except those that contain moly and then the only thing you need to do is shake them real good to resuspend the moly.

Geno
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:41 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Papa is mopar ATF Type 4 ok??
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:38 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Yep, It's fine but >

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVNTR View Post
Papa is mopar ATF Type 4 ok??
It has some additional friction modifiers in it to make the clutch application in late model Mopar vehicles a little slower to cure some complaints that owners had about harsh shifting and converter shudder.

The only thing that means to you and me is that it will make the cluch apply somewhat smoother than Dexron/Mercon fluid. For stock bikes or bikes that aren't ridden aggressively all the time it will provide the cleanest release and smoothest clutch application.

It should not be used for hot rod bikes that are over 80-90hp or bikes that are routinely ridden hard.

ATF+4 is a full synthetic fluid that uses a non permanent red dye that darkens with age and has a very distinctive odor.
Just because it changes to a brownish color as it ages does not affect the properties of the fluid.
It is the most temperature stable of all ATF's and can stand heat in excess of 250 degrees with little or no degradation up to 275 degrees.

It also should not be used in aftermarket high performance clutches that use sintered metal friction discs as it can cause slipping with these.

Happy Thanksgiving
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:26 AM   #30 (permalink)
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"""are soo good, there is absolutely no reason to us synthetic""" ...man, are you wrong.
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