CanBus Error 2016 FXSB : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums
» Sponsors

Go Back   V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums > Technical Discussion Forums > Electrical, Wiring and Lighting
New User? Register Forgot Password

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-13-2019, 10:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
bbadalucca wants to know Dino or Syn?
CanBus Error 2016 FXSB

2016 FXSB Breakout.
7200 miles.

Only electrcial add-ons are an LED headlight and a 3rd Tail/ Brake light under rear fender. Both have been installed and operating since last year. Over the winter, installed Accel direct mount coils (plug n play setup), but have ridden the bikes several days since that install with no issues.

2 weeks ago while riding, every light on the Speedo came on, and the odometer displayed "Buserr".... had no RH or LH controls.
Bike ran fine though, so we got it home. Ignition switch was delayed in shutting bike off... by 4 or 5 seconds.

Current situation, with ignition off and Run switch off, the TMAP and ABS modules cycle on a somewhat constant pattern.

No controls work so I cant crank engin, or get Speedo into DIAG mode.
Ignition ON powers up running lights, and appears to bring BMC to life, but still no controls, and randomnly the Speedo may or may not come on.

Here's where it gets interesting,

If I unplug the ABS ECU, the TMAP stops cycling, I gain RH controls ONLY and engine will crank and start.... have RH signal and front brake light. Run switch will kill engine.
Speedo has all warning lights, but powers up and down as it should.
Still no LH controls.

Plug ABS back in... and unplug the Black plug on ECM....
I now will gain LEFT HAND controls ONLY and can get into Diag mode. Speedo works, but bike wont crank due to no RH controls).

Got a bunch of codes, due to having stuff unplugged, but the U0001 is there ( Canbus error), which is Priority #1 in the HD EDM Manual.

Ran thru Troubleshooting, but we are hitting deadends. Per the manual, its telling on Step 20-something that theres a short in the white/ red Canbus wire. ... Cant find any short, no breaks, kinks, or melted wire and continuity is good from datalink to every Canbus component.

Brought it to Dealer, they spent 3 hrs double cheking my work and say they cant get Digital Tech to communicate unless Black plug is removed.
They claim they tried a new ECM, but didnt marry it cuz Dig Tech wouldnt work. I asked them if they bench flashed it, they said No.
So I checked with the Parts guy who I deal with . He says I cant just plug it in without flashing it, it wont work. (So how did they try a part that wouldnt work, and say it wasnt the fix??)
They say they can get deeper into it, but not for another week or so I Pulled bike out of the dealer cuz now Ive lost faith in them. 3 Hrs and they never even hooked up a Breakout box)
Trying to get it into a Independent shop that a few have given high recommendations for a good Harley Tech.

Anybody experience this on a 2016 or some late model Softail? Might have a go-to shortcut before I lose another 2 weeks of riding season?
bbadalucca is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-13-2019, 11:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
IronButt
 
norm9278's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: US
Posts: 1,366
norm9278 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Due to all of the odd ball errors you are having I would start out by looking for a bad ground.
That's about the only thing that all of your problems have in common.

Sent from my coal burning bag phone using Tapatalk
norm9278 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
bbadalucca wants to know Dino or Syn?
Yeah, thats what we thought too. But we've inspected all the Ground junctions, which all run back to 2 Grounds at the battery on the Breakouts. Visually, Ohmed them out at every connector pin.
Even changed the battery although HD tested it and says its good.

Last edited by bbadalucca; 05-13-2019 at 01:34 PM.
bbadalucca is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2019, 02:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master Motorhead
 
Thermodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: V-Twin Forum Elite
Posts: 18,908
Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club
What other codes did you get?

And did that dealer use a breakout box for the diagnostics? Or just throw an ecm at it when the digitec wouldn't communicate?
__________________
Thermodyne is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-13-2019, 09:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
bbadalucca wants to know Dino or Syn?
3 hrs charged and never hooked up a BOB. One of the reasons I pulled it outta there....
I'm a Diesel Tech by trade so I know the game of taking shortcuts, and am perfectly OK with others doing it to my stuff...if it works. But Step 3 of the EDM manual is plug in the BOB.... so they never got there... spent 3 hrs trying shortcuts that ended up going nowhere. Then charged me for it.
As far as the codes.... there were some others, mainly U codes, which would make sense considering the ECM was half unplugged at the time, The Black plug on the ECM contains the ECM's Canbus wires, so... I consider them "Phantom" codes until the U0001 is fixed. That DTC is Priority #1 in Harley's Holy Grail, and the first DTC to return immediately upon clearing them.
bbadalucca is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-14-2019, 01:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master Motorhead
 
Thermodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: V-Twin Forum Elite
Posts: 18,908
Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club
Without the BoB its almost impossible to fix. And I'm told that a lot of dealers never bought the sets because of cost and inability of staff to use them.

The other codes might offer a clue. But that would be the most you would get from them. And if its the speedo unit or the BCM, no amount of diagnosing is going to sort it out.

I would remove all of the electrical add ons and then do a hard reset. Pull the main, disconnect the battery and let it sit overnight with the key on. If that doesn't sort it out I would contact the Motor Company and arrange an appointment with a dealer who is known to be able to work on the system. As in, will put a BoB on it as suggested in the diagnostics instructions.

It way to expensive to throw parts at it, what with the ABS and radio being involved. So its going to need to be diagnosed properly.
__________________

Last edited by Thermodyne; 05-14-2019 at 01:07 PM.
Thermodyne is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-14-2019, 01:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
bbadalucca wants to know Dino or Syn?
It's going to another dealer this afternoon.

I finally got a hold of a locally well respected Tech who owns an independent shop. He's willing to look at it, but is 98% sure the BCM dumped. Said he's seen a few Breakouts do it. And 100% sure he'd have to take it to the same dealer its going to today to get the BCM programmed anyway. He's not a Harley dealer, so no Proprietary software. So... in his eyes, no point in paying him.

Thats the kind of Technicians I like... Honest and Informed.

Last edited by bbadalucca; 05-14-2019 at 01:37 PM.
bbadalucca is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-14-2019, 03:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
IronButt
 
FishinFather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 1,156
FishinFather wants to know Dino or Syn?
Good luck and keep us posted.
__________________
2016 Electra Glide Ultra Classic FLHTCU
Rush Racing headpipes (HO7017)
A.N. Big Sucker II PN: 18-511
ThunderMax ECM PN: #309-562
Full Boar slip-ons
FishinFather is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-14-2019, 06:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Kickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 249
Kickman wants to know Dino or Syn?
CanBus Error 2016 FXSB

Love these kinds of threads.. ill read through it after i get off work.. But I do have some can buss test to run..

At the data link connection..
Ignition off
Pin 1 to pin 3 spec 50-70 ohms
Pin 1-2 OL
Pin 2-3 OL If you say a K thats 1000 ohms same as OL

Ignition on pin 1-2 2.5-2.6vdc
2-3 2.4-2.5vdc
If when testing 1-3 and you get 120 ohms uplug modules untill it drops to 50-60

You only have to modules with resistors, the right switch housing, and the ECM, later models have a resistor pack, if you have 120 ohms and you unplug your right switch housing and it falls to 60 ohms then its bad

Last edited by Kickman; 05-15-2019 at 01:43 AM.
Kickman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-14-2019, 06:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Kickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 249
Kickman wants to know Dino or Syn?
CanBus Error 2016 FXSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbadalucca View Post
2016 FXSB Breakout.

7200 miles.



Only electrcial add-ons are an LED headlight and a 3rd Tail/ Brake light under rear fender. Both have been installed and operating since last year. Over the winter, installed Accel direct mount coils (plug n play setup), but have ridden the bikes several days since that install with no issues.



2 weeks ago while riding, every light on the Speedo came on, and the odometer displayed "Buserr".... had no RH or LH controls.

Bike ran fine though, so we got it home. Ignition switch was delayed in shutting bike off... by 4 or 5 seconds.



Current situation, with ignition off and Run switch off, the TMAP and ABS modules cycle on a somewhat constant pattern.



No controls work so I cant crank engin, or get Speedo into DIAG mode.

Ignition ON powers up running lights, and appears to bring BMC to life, but still no controls, and randomnly the Speedo may or may not come on.



Here's where it gets interesting,



If I unplug the ABS ECU, the TMAP stops cycling, I gain RH controls ONLY and engine will crank and start.... have RH signal and front brake light. Run switch will kill engine.

Speedo has all warning lights, but powers up and down as it should.

Still no LH controls.



Plug ABS back in... and unplug the Black plug on ECM....

I now will gain LEFT HAND controls ONLY and can get into Diag mode. Speedo works, but bike wont crank due to no RH controls).



Got a bunch of codes, due to having stuff unplugged, but the U0001 is there ( Canbus error), which is Priority #1 in the HD EDM Manual.



Ran thru Troubleshooting, but we are hitting deadends. Per the manual, its telling on Step 20-something that theres a short in the white/ red Canbus wire. ... Cant find any short, no breaks, kinks, or melted wire and continuity is good from datalink to every Canbus component.



Brought it to Dealer, they spent 3 hrs double cheking my work and say they cant get Digital Tech to communicate unless Black plug is removed.

They claim they tried a new ECM, but didnt marry it cuz Dig Tech wouldnt work. I asked them if they bench flashed it, they said No.

So I checked with the Parts guy who I deal with . He says I cant just plug it in without flashing it, it wont work. (So how did they try a part that wouldnt work, and say it wasnt the fix??)

They say they can get deeper into it, but not for another week or so I Pulled bike out of the dealer cuz now Ive lost faith in them. 3 Hrs and they never even hooked up a Breakout box)

Trying to get it into a Independent shop that a few have given high recommendations for a good Harley Tech.



Anybody experience this on a 2016 or some late model Softail? Might have a go-to shortcut before I lose another 2 weeks of riding season?


Can you list out all codes, 1 post so I can see them all, i need to know what modules reported and who did not...

List all I list..

Each module

BCM
ECM
Speedo
ABS

All codes for each module..
Kickman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-14-2019, 07:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master Motorhead
 
Thermodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: V-Twin Forum Elite
Posts: 18,908
Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club Thermodyne joined the Live to Ride club
I ran this thread past my MoCo Rabi and he said you should have recorded the codes that were reported at first sign of a fault, and I quote "before you tried to confuse everything by powering up with open circuits." And then he said some stuff about not ever having seen anything in the manual about trying to operate the scooter with components unplugged, but we can skip his colorful commentary.

The running till shut off is a safety feature built into the system. And extra circuit to the run switch. And it has no value as far as diagnostics.

His says to follow the diagnostic ladder in the manual. Follow it exactly. And if you deviate from it, and I quote again, "You might as well just order one of everything, then replace the parts till its fixed".

Basically the system should have been on the breakout box as soon as they realized the data link was not functioning. And that you should go get your three hours labor charge refunded. And one more time I will quote, (Ask the dealer to show you where the manual said to put a raw ecm on the scooter)

According to him the breakout box (s) should have been on the scooter 5 minutes after the tech started working on it.
__________________
Thermodyne is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2019, 12:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Kickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 249
Kickman wants to know Dino or Syn?
This really isn't that difficult... the tests that I gave you, you can test threw your data link connection with a standard volt meter.

It will tell you the state of health of the system.

People often over think the can high can low system or HDLan.

One thing that is often thought but not true is that the 2 buss lines send signals independently. They don't/ at least not our system. They send signals/the same signals on both lines at the same time, and they must, arrive at the same time, every time! If one signal arrives sooner or later than the other, then there is a fault. That is why the engineering department doesn't allow lengthening these wires for your super tall bars, they sale extended harness, and they are exactly the same length to eliminate the possibility of the customer or tech screwing it up.

You can do it, but you must be super accurate otherwise your going to run into issues like these.

The BCM at key on sends a call out at key on to all modules, and one by one so do all the others in priority order, but that really means nothing.

If you told me that all of modules at key on reported the same code, then the modules that didn't report is the issue!

The fact that the system wakes up for
me at least tells me the BCM turned on. And it will only do so if the resistor pack tells the bcm its in place.

You can unplug the left and right switch housings, and swap plugs, and absolutely nothing will happen! Zero!

That's because they are connected to the same wires, they talk through those wires, nothing more, the bCM doesn't differentiate what set of wires is what any more. It only sends out the signals to report back your active on the right, right says yes, then the signal to the left, left says yes, then to speedometer, speedometers says yes, Abs, Abs says yes.

If the right switch housing however is dead it will not report back, and you will have no run stop/start resistance ether, thats why I asked you to test the system.

If you test can high to can low and you have 120ohms of resistance, one of the 2 resistor packs are dead, if you unplug one or the other and you now have 60ohms of resistance you have found that bad module

As therm pointed out on the right switch housing there is a 5th white/black. Its a safety dedicated wire to the BCM, incase the on board networking fails the bCM will remain keeping everything going until you key off, then it will not power back up.

its a pretty quick system to diagnose, and I happen to very familiar with, at the engineering level and work with them it often.

if you can run those test, anybody with a meter can, and list out all the codes and what modules reported the codes, you can solve this on your own..
Kickman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2019, 01:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Kickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 249
Kickman wants to know Dino or Syn?
CanBus Error 2016 FXSB

The BOB or break out box it part of an essential tool package, it's absolutely required by every dealership and it part of DT2 and works with Guided diagnostics, if the dealership doesn't have the required essential tools, there is a BIG problem and do not return to this dealer..

For now, its not needed to solve this issue..

Let's break down these tests and what they mean..

First the codes reported by the modules

A minimum if 2 modules will report a DTC if 1 module loses the ability to communicate, and if 2 or more of the modules set the same U code the module that didn't report is the problem, cut and dry!

Look at this can buss schematic of your year model.



You should gather quickly by looking at the wiring that there are 4 wires for every module

Red. Power
Black. Ground
W/red can high
W/black can low

At your data link, the ability for us to use DT2 or your meter we can talk or watch the communications going on..

Ether way look at the wires, they are all connected to each other, and it doesn't matter at all where they are in the circuit, front back, side to side, with snoop dog.

All that matters is that they receive the communication on both lines at the same time, and that they send back reports on those lines, at the same time. If you have modules reporting can bus codes, which ever didn't is most likely the issue!

Now. You said you installed a few things, if you did, did you use a factory acc. wire power port, if so, was there a resistor pack that you unplugged to plug that wire harness in? I didn't think your bike had this, but I see it listed here? If you unplugged and discarded that, you may have caused this problem, we had an issue like this awhile ago, but Im not sure about this, on softtails, touring yes..



So with ignition off and your meter you can test pins through the data lunk

1 w/red and 3 w/black and you should have 50-60 ohms of resistance.

If you do not, one of the sets of resistors is not working and you will have like 100-120 ohms of resistance and the bike will not power up

One resistor pack is in the ecm or resistor pack plug , if your tested the system and it was 120 ohms and then you unplug the ecm while watching the resistance and it drops to 50-60 the ECM is or the lines to it are at fault.

Or the right hand control module, same thing 1-3 120 ohms, unplug the right hand control module and drops to 50-60 then that module is at fault.

So 1-3 if the right switch module and ECM are good 50-60...

1-2 is can high to ground it shouldn't be grounded you will have OL- no resistance
2-3 is can low to ground it shouldn't be grounded you will have OL-no resistance

Last edited by Kickman; 05-15-2019 at 01:48 AM.
Kickman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2019, 08:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
bbadalucca wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickman View Post
Love these kinds of threads.. ill read through it after i get off work.. But I do have some can buss test to run..

At the data link connection..
Ignition off
Pin 1 to pin 3 spec 50-70 ohms
Pin 1-2 OL
Pin 2-3 OL If you say a K thats 1000 ohms same as OL

Ignition on pin 1-2 2.5-2.6vdc
2-3 2.4-2.5vdc
If when testing 1-3 and you get 120 ohms uplug modules untill it drops to 50-60

You only have to modules with resistors, the right switch housing, and the ECM, later models have a resistor pack, if you have 120 ohms and you unplug your right switch housing and it falls to 60 ohms then its bad
I did test this on the recommendation of a Harley Engineer I was able to talk to for 5 mins.... Pins 1-3 had only .5 VDC, so I wasnt able to continue with the test he recomended, which was " Verify your 2.5 VDC, then unplug each Canbus module until you get a voltage drop. That will isolate where the issue lies, somewhere in that module or its leg of the harness"
He never specified what to do if there wasnt proper voltage to begin with. I did however unplug each module hoping to get a voltage GAIN, thinking I heard his isntructions backwards...lol... But that too was unsuccessful.

Regardless.... I wish I had seen your posts sooner.
The bike was delivered to another dealer last evening.
The Serv Mgr immediately assigned a Tech to it and that Tech met me at the garage door when I unloaded bike.
He was an older guy, in his 50's. Not some 22 year old straight outta school with chip on his shoulder. That was a positive in my book. He recognized I was a Mechanic (Diesel), and understood how things basically worked, and liked the Tech Notes I printed out for him.
We then spent about 40 mins discussing everything there was to know about the bike; He even asked me what brand paint I used. We went over every inch of the bike, asking me about where wires were loose and verifying what I had been into and what I didnt look at.
I lef tthere with a very confident feeling that the bike was in good hands.... Cant say I had that feeling about the Selling Dealer.

I will keep updates on this. Hoping to hear something today, but not going to hound em...
bbadalucca is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-15-2019, 08:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 9
bbadalucca wants to know Dino or Syn?
A lot of the tests you outlined were tests in the EDM manual Troubleshooting tree for DTC U0001.
I did follow them, but hit a dead end with, I believe Step 24... testing the ohms on the RH module. The reading are written down at home, so I dont have numbers for you right now, but the end result was "Repair short in Wht/ Red Can wire"...
We couldnt find said Short...
bbadalucca is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. WE WILL SEND A CONFIRMATION EMAIL TO THE ADDRESS YOU PROVIDE. If the email address is NOT VALID, you will not be given access to the system!
Email Address:
Motorcycle Year/Make
Location
Where you live
Security Question
*Required, this field is not shown to others: While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what kind of animal is mentioned in the sentence above.

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can canbus wiring be soldered? Janddcycles Harley-Davidson Dyna 5 01-08-2016 06:08 PM
PCV map request: Canbus 103 / S&S 585 dean350b EFI Maps and Calibrations 7 07-17-2015 10:58 AM
83 FXSB Gas Tank Mounting MadManMike Pre-Evolution Engines 4 09-09-2004 12:05 PM
what seat will fit this 1985 fxsb low rider corkvette1 Seats and Saddles 1 06-18-2003 10:42 PM
question about 1985 fxsb air cleaner and jet kit corkvette1 Harley-Davidson Dyna 1 06-18-2003 07:25 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
(C)2001-2012 V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved (C)2001- V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum strong>Kawasaki Z125 Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Forum Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Honda Africa Twin Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum Ducati 959 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Victory Charger Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum
BMW Scrambler Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum Kawasaki Ninja 250SL Forum