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Old 08-27-2007, 09:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Avon vs. Metzler

before you flame I did a search and didn't find the answer. My Superglide T-Sport is a nail magnet. I've had 3 flat tires in 5 years. I was told by a riding buddy that Avons have thicker sidewalls than Metzler which makes them safer if you have a puncture. Is this true? Also, I currently have Metzler 880 in 150. If the 140 has a higher load rating whould it be a good idea to switch to a 140? Anything but Dunrock.
Also, I now have learned to carry an aersol can of Fix-a-Flat. It really works.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:00 AM   #2 (permalink)
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"Anything but Dunrock." Ok, but, have you tried the E3? No load rating issues (vs. metz), they wear well (vs. avon), and the handling is 2nd to none imo. Worth a try..
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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How are the E3's in the rain? The Dunflops that came on my '04 were terrible. I'm open to new tech and would give the E3's a shot if they handle the rain.
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compressor#v
How are the E3's in the rain? The Dunflops that came on my '04 were terrible. I'm open to new tech and would give the E3's a shot if they handle the rain.
Meztlers are great in the rain, however with their QA issues, the latest Brazilian made 150mm tire that isn't a 150mm tire, I won't purchase them anymore.

I wish Dunflop had the E3 in more 18" sizes, but I suppose they are testing the market with the more popular 16"s. If they had a 150/18" rear and a 130 (or 140)/18" front, I'd give them a try.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compressor#v
How are the E3's in the rain? The Dunflops that came on my '04 were terrible. I'm open to new tech and would give the E3's a shot if they handle the rain.
I had zero rain problems on this year's Sturgis run (4000 miles). We hit 2 hours of hard rain coming out of Yellowstone at low/mid speed, which wasn't much of a test. However, heading south through Denver was a good interstate rain test and I felt very secure.

I was never a fan of the OEM Dunlops, but these E3's are the sh!t.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Not sure on the sidewall issue , but Ive had both ME 880's and Avon Venoms (Am41/42) and prefer the Avons , although both are good and in my experience far superior to both stock dunlops and the GT502 I've tried,.
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Old 08-28-2007, 04:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I run Metzlers on my 2002 T-Sport. And yes, the tires made in Brazil are different. German ME880 will only fit a 150, which mounted works out to over 155mm. The same Brazil ME880 is 139-142mm, smaller width than stock Dunlop. I now have a Brazil 160 ME880 and it fits and is still a bit smaller than German 150.

It says on sidewall where it is made. Make sure you ask dealer where the tire is made. Some dealers will give you a bullcrap answer about no difference. There is, check search for Mis-Marked Metzler;
http://65.38.172.84/forums/showthread.php?t=108421

Hope that helps
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher
Meztlers are great in the rain, however with their QA issues, the latest Brazilian made 150mm tire that isn't a 150mm tire, I won't purchase them anymore.

I wish Dunflop had the E3 in more 18" sizes, but I suppose they are testing the market with the more popular 16"s. If they had a 150/18" rear and a 130 (or 140)/18" front, I'd give them a try.
They've straightened that issue out, Vafatboy got one that measures about 130, mine measures about 145...Metzlers still out handle and out wear most...and one friend with hot bike a penchant for going fast both straight and in the twisties said he isn't buying the E3's again...I'm told the Avons are pretty good in the rain too but because of the radial lines in the tread they track on tar snakes and bridge grates pretty bad...they still don't get the miles...I don't think you could chase me fast enough to give me a Dunflop...prolly couldn't catch me either...
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Old 08-28-2007, 05:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Exclamation

Quote;"They've straightened that issue out, Vafatboy got one that measures about 130, mine measures about 145...Metzlers still out handle and out wear......"

Sorry, but if you measure a German 150 and a Brazil 150 you will find a difference, Even the "new" better Brazil ME880s. German ME880s in 150 were almost 160mm on wheel (measure one yourself) and the difference of "new" vs first Brazil 880s in 150/80/16 size is 138mm vs 142mm. Largest I measured at indy dealer where they had a lot of both and talked to Metzler rep was a 144mm 150 tire. PLEASE. Would you even consider buying a 88ci or 96 ci Harley motor that the company said was that size and really measured 81ci or 90ci????

Plus I have one of the Brazil tires as stated above in 160 size which is still smaller across than a German 150. And I have to ask about the wear. Has anyone out there had a Brazil Metzler ME880 long enough to tell us how long they last compared to a German tire???? If mine wear considerably faster, it will be the last Metzler tire I purchase and I have 5 motorcycles running Metzler tires. Quality control is quality control. It worries me a little and I am hoping these are not the new "Firestone Wilderness" tires.
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Old 08-29-2007, 03:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera108
Quote;"They've straightened that issue out, Vafatboy got one that measures about 130, mine measures about 145...Metzlers still out handle and out wear......"

Sorry, but if you measure a German 150 and a Brazil 150 you will find a difference, Even the "new" better Brazil ME880s. German ME880s in 150 were almost 160mm on wheel (measure one yourself) and the difference of "new" vs first Brazil 880s in 150/80/16 size is 138mm vs 142mm. Largest I measured at indy dealer where they had a lot of both and talked to Metzler rep was a 144mm 150 tire. PLEASE. Would you even consider buying a 88ci or 96 ci Harley motor that the company said was that size and really measured 81ci or 90ci????

Plus I have one of the Brazil tires as stated above in 160 size which is still smaller across than a German 150. And I have to ask about the wear. Has anyone out there had a Brazil Metzler ME880 long enough to tell us how long they last compared to a German tire???? If mine wear considerably faster, it will be the last Metzler tire I purchase and I have 5 motorcycles running Metzler tires. Quality control is quality control. It worries me a little and I am hoping these are not the new "Firestone Wilderness" tires.
The indy I buy from just got a new shipment of tires, we spent about a half hour measuring every Metzler (10) and all but one measured to correct size (5mm off)...this is compared to the last shipment that about 80% were off at least 10mm. Oddly when measured both the Dunlops and Avons varied about 5mm larger or smaller...(we slightly inflated a tube and inserted it in each tire for the test)

My Metzlers last on average (on 3rd set now) about 12k...in reality it's more like 13.5k for the front and 11.5k for the back and I ride aggressively, (just ask my bros ) air pressure is the single biggest cause of poor tire wear. My stock Dunlops lasted about 8k and after I changed over to Metzlers my wife asked if I'd put new tires on...her remark was that the bike no longer felt like it was gonna slide out from under us...really cool that she could feel the difference...
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Old 08-29-2007, 04:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred1369
before you flame I did a search and didn't find the answer. My Superglide T-Sport is a nail magnet. I've had 3 flat tires in 5 years. I was told by a riding buddy that Avons have thicker sidewalls than Metzler which makes them safer if you have a puncture. Is this true? Also, I currently have Metzler 880 in 150. If the 140 has a higher load rating whould it be a good idea to switch to a 140?
I switch from the Metzler ME880 150s to the 140s due to load rating. I liked the ride better too. Not sure about the sidewall thickness, HOWEVER I have since gone to running Avon Venoms on front and back and will not consider going back to Metzler's. The Avon tires have been the best running tires I've ever used.

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Old 08-29-2007, 04:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Fred1369

I have been running the stock dunlop's on my Road Glide and have been able to get 29,000 miles out of a front tire, and about 12,000 miles out of a rear tire. I don't baby it either.. To me performance does include tire life as well as handling capabilities. I have only had one flat (rear), and have had it plugged for over 3,000 miles now.

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Old 08-29-2007, 07:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swmnkdinthervr
...and one friend with hot bike a penchant for going fast both straight and in the twisties said he isn't buying the E3's again...I'm told the Avons are pretty good in the rain too but because of the radial lines in the tread they track on tar snakes and bridge grates pretty bad...they still don't get the miles...I don't think you could chase me fast enough to give me a Dunflop...prolly couldn't catch me either...
My exact experience! I have used em all and have the E3's on my RG now and HATE em, they are coming off very soon! The avons do track the tar snakes bad. Living in the middle of the Oregon coastal mtn range, my every day riding includes mostly twisty county two lanes (I always take the back way!). The Avons are ok except for the way they handle the anomilies in the road surface and I got very poor milage from them. The Metzlers are outstanding! For the riding I do, they can't be beat, too bad they have that load rating issue with the 150 but oh well... Guess I'll have to live with the 140... Heck, my bike came stock with a 130
The E3's are terrible, I have absolutely zero confidence in those tires although, if most of my riding was fwy/hwy miles they might be ok cause they do handle tar snakes and gratings very well. I haven't ridden em much in the rain but the little that I did ride em in the rain, I didn't like em, they'll be changed out with about 3-4000 miles on em.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Avons and tar snakes...

I was getting a wobble (again,hd changed out a bad tire once already,and heve heard of many more bad 21' Dunslops))coasting down through 60 kph with my 21 " stock Dunslops and they followed road imperfections agressivly.
When i was in Vegas i got a set of venoms installed, WOW what a difference!!
great cornering and NO following tar snake . Can't comment on wear as i only have about 5000km on them,but they look new still.

Also,at Henderson HD, they told me HD is dropping Dunslop and going with (probably) michelin.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Camera108 is right on. My new smaller Brazilian Metz's ride and handle like crap. I've been running Metz for many years, and over the Labor Day weekend I rode to Tn. and back, (1600 mi.) both in the rain and in the mountains. Swim'n naked says the issue has been fixed. Well I talked to Jeff Johnstone and another tech from Metzler/Pirelli about 2 weeks ago and they told me when they knew something they would call me. Maybe because I've called attention to this whole issue, they are ignoring me on puropose. That's OK. I'll stop being the loyal customer I was. And if they don't care about one customer what makes you think that they will treat anybody special, or care if we buy or not. Thus far their attitude has been cavalier. Wide is in, otherwise why would Metz(330) be in the fatter is better race with Avon. There's only one reason to make them in Brazil and still a 150 is only 145. Cause the profit margin is greater, at our expense.
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