For those of you that want to make the oil debate more than just a debate, read this : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

Thealien · 02-06-2003, 02:50 PM

This was my reply to someones post in the HD syn3 thread.

But ford and chevy do not tell you that you must use their oil!! They must use a specifically graded oil ie; sc, sg ! I do not know how HD gets around the magnussen act that specifically states if a manufacturer requires you to use an oil product not available anywhere else they must supply it for free, how do they get around this (money in the right pocket??). I also don't think HD cares what happens years down the road after the warrantee is gone. Sh!t most guys don't ride 10,000 miles in 3-4 years, they won't have any problems with 20-50 in the transmision and if they do will probably attribute it to normal wear and tear and not cover it anyway. I ride 20-25,000 miles a year, at the end of my 4 year warrantee I expect to have 100,000 miles on my bike and plan on maintaining and protecting my bike with the best available lubricants. Do the research, I have posted a few links, and do some on your own and decide what is best for you and good luck with your decision. I honestly don't believe HD has your best interests in mind, specially when oil is concerned. They are in the business to make motorcycles and money. There are a few oil companies that all they do is make oil, their product better do as claimed or they would go out of business. HD sells jackets, T-Shirts, jewelry, sneakers, boots, etc and don't make any of them, believe what you want to believe !! And good luck in your quest for the truth !!!

Unome · 02-06-2003, 03:02 PM

As I said in other topic "Right On Alien".

defibvt · 02-06-2003, 03:05 PM

Since you brought the discussion over here instead of in the poll thread could you please post the links again. Inquiring minds want to know>

Thealien · 02-06-2003, 03:07 PM

This is the 1994 MCN article

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

conetail · 02-06-2003, 03:08 PM

I will be switching to Syn3 when I go in for 1000 mile service. Its only a few Qts and HD has tested and approves of it now.

Thealien · 02-06-2003, 03:09 PM

This is the JP cycle parts forum with over 400 posts, takes a few minutes to load.

http://www.jpcycles.com/forum/topic/1576/

vadiver · 02-06-2003, 03:13 PM

Alien, I'm with you. I've done the research and done plenty of reading. I put Amsoil in my truck and it runs fine. BTW, I run extended drains on my truck. As you said, HD does not make oil. Even in the q & a, they avoided the question about who makes it. That is because they do not want you to buy the oil direct from the manufacturer. They would lose profits.

HD makes motorcycles and damn fine ones at that. However, I prefer to buy the best protection/oil I can and I've yet to see anything that says HD SYN3 is even comparable to the best except for marketing hype. If they want me to buy it, they will have to run independent tests and show me it is better.

navyharley · 02-06-2003, 03:16 PM

Mobile1 makes a very good synthetic oil, why give HD anymore than you have to.

Thealien · 02-06-2003, 03:22 PM

This is the amsoil tech # where you can ask for an info packet and testamonials. 715-392-7101

I am a high school graduate (no colledge) and an electrician, not an engineer by any means but I read everything I can get my hands on. So these are just some of the places I know for information, find some on your own so you can be objective. I reaearched for a year before I believed the claims ten years ago.

I also want to state that Amsoil is also one of the only companies that does not sell a V-Twin specific oil at an inflated price as do many others. Amsoil sells a V-Twin specific oil but it is just their 20-50 automotive oil repackaged and sold at the same price, ask their engineers at the above numbers and they will confirm this. I use their racing oil even though they say it is unneccesary because I am probably harder on my bike than most of you. Good luck in your quest for the right answers for you. I take a lot of time trying to answer lots of questions in between fu(king around and am starting to think it is NOT worth it, I already know what I want and use and with 500,000 miles under my belt I know what works for me !!!!

Amsoil is also the only one to name names in their tests such as mobil 1 where as other companies compare themselves to "sythetic" , would they not be sued if their claims were untrue ???

txjimbo · 02-06-2003, 03:22 PM

AMERICAN IRON mag ran a series of articles on this topic back in 2000 -2001. They interviewed the man at Mobil Research on Mobil's V-twin oil. The man is also a rider. I'm not trying to tell everyone to use Mobil-1 but another fact, Porsche used to include a case of Mobil-1 in the trunk of every new Porsche sold.

Thealien · 02-06-2003, 03:30 PM

I have no problem with mobil 1 by the way, it is a quality product and have heard nothing bad about it. In the tests against amsoil, amsoil was a little better so I choose it. Again choose what is best for you even if you think it is maple syrup!! I would not use the V-Twin specific oil from mobil 1 in my opinion it is not worth the added cost, read the article in the MCN link. That was 9 years ago and I am sure conventional and synthetic oils have improved tremendously!!!

CPT '00SPRINGER · 02-06-2003, 03:45 PM

Hot Rod Bikes just did an article on this. HD says that their oil has metal additives that protect high temp air cooled engines. The olny reason car oils do not have these additives anymore is because they clog up the CATS. HD says that if you must use a different oil to use a deisel motor oil or Mobil 1 if you have no other choice. For the little milage I put on mine, I use the HD oil. It's a very good oil article, they compare dino and syn oils too. I think Hot Rod Bikes is not a HD only mag, I think they are unbiased, but's it impossible to tell; the mags would never want to piss off HD for fear of being cut off.

BTW GM says I must use Mobil 1 in my Corvette Z06.

Thealien, do you know what makes Mobil 1 v-twin oil special, anything, or is it just repackaged too? Amsoil is the sh*t, I'm going to run it in my vette when I get back to the states.

Thealien · 02-06-2003, 03:59 PM

My dealer Desantis chevrolet in Brockton Mass would have no problem with Amsoil, he uses it in his offfshore race boats even. If they specify a brand like that, they are covered under the magnussen act and must supply it free.

If you don't mind call GM or your dealer and ask them their view on amsoil of the same grade and oil weight. I am interested in their reply, thanks in advance.

CPT '00SPRINGER · 02-06-2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thealien
My dealer Desantis chevrolet in Brockton Mass would have no problem with Amsoil, he uses it in his offfshore race boats even. If they specify a brand like that, they are covered under the magnussen act and must supply it free.

If you don't mind call GM or your dealer and ask them their view on amsoil of the same grade and oil weight. I am interested in their reply, thanks in advance.

GM says I have to use a syn oil, they recommend Mobil 1, many of the good dealers that are MOD friendly sell Amsoil. Our trannys use ATF, everybody that has switched to Amsoil ATF has reported smoother shifting and lower temps! What do you not like about the HD oil, other than it's not syn, and what do you think of the Mobil 1 v-twin oil? My German dealer has probably never heard of Amsoil.

02-06-2003, 04:12 PM

reposted from the other thread ...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Thealien
But ford and chevy do not tell you that you must use their oil!! They must use a specifically graded oil ie; sc, sg ! I do not know how HD gets around the magnussen act that specifically states if a manufacturer requires you to use an oil product not available anywhere else they must supply it for free, how do they get around this
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In fact H-D DOESN'T specifically say this ANYWHERE in their literature! Doesn't matter one d@mn put what comes out of the owner, salesman or service writer's mouth, H-D does NOT state anywhere in writing 'use only H-D oil or the warranty is void".

Just like the car manufacturers, Harley 'recommends' that you use their oil. Dealers make $$$ off of selling oil so they like to come up mushy-mouthed veiled threats like these (from dealer websites...):

"The debate over synthetic oil vs. regular oil is an on going controversy, but Harley-Davidson only recommends the use of their oil and to avoid any possible warranty problem, we strongly suggest you use Harley-Davidson oil."

"Q: Can I use other brands of oil in my Harley?
A: Harley-Davidson strongly recommends that customers use only HARLEY-DAVIDSON OIL, which is specially formulated to run at the temperature of your Harley. Other oils may break down too fast or cause excess wear to motor parts."

Now that don't exactly say IF you use non HD oil THEN your warranty is void, does it? It's doublespeak, nothing more, no legal content.

The problem comes when you have to go THROUGH the owner, salesman or service writer to get your warranty work done. Don't let 'em stonewall you. If they give you any cr@p, start screaming (in the middle of the sales floor is a good spot) about the Magnussen act and demand thatthey get a regional factory rep on the line, NOW.

http://www.pecuniary.com/newsletters/HDwarranty.html

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