Torn between a Heritage and a Stratoliner

[GeorgeC]

Originally Posted by Jeffytune

Hi George.
Were not Haters, but we do get are share of trolls here trolling to start sh!t from time to time. I read your first post ad waited to reply to see if you were being serious and a troll, I feel that you are being serious so I will treat you as you are asking to learn.

In touring models (And the frames are all the same between the sub models) The twin cam frame started in 1999. The early ones had issues with the first cam design (The gear would strip the wood drift key). They changed to a spline in 2000 but the engine still has cam issues. Most of this was found to be oil galley issue with dirt from the 30micron filters Harley was using, they now use a 5micron filter. There was still and issue with the can spring tensioners, they would fail without warning. S&S came up with a gear drive cam system to eliminate the chains. In 2003, Harley changed the bottom end going from the "Timkin" three bearing flywheel set up to a two roller bearing set up. There both good solid set-ups, but the roller gave more movement to the crank and this made installing the gear set up more problematical, as the run out could chip the gear teeth. Harley fixed the chain issue in 2007 with the introduction of the latest twin cam the 96. The new cam chain tensoinors used oil pressure instead of springs and used a better nylon pad that did not wear out.

Now to your question about 2000-2004. Up until 2002 Harley used the Marrelli injection system, while it worked fine when it works, it is hard to fix and expensive to get parts for, many of these bikes have been converted to Carburetor. In 2002 Harley changed to the GM/Delphi system, and it is still in use today and it far easier to work on. 2006 was the last year you could get a Carburetor. So if your looking at a 2000-2001 be sure it has the carburetor.
Any of them you buy, be ready to change the cam system over to the new Harley system, you will need the cams, chain plat oil pump and so on, Harley sells it in a kit. (Assuming it has not been changed over). Be ready to install a true track (Again, assuming it does not have one) all the Harley tour bikes have an issue with tracking and this will correct it. I would also suggest having the front motor mount replaced, they usually wear enough in 15,000 miles to warrant replacement.

Try to avoid used bikes that have been heavily modified, it usually is a nightmare. The more stock the better.

Jeffytune, Thank You!
So, I should plan on spending another $2K when I buy a Road King or the like??
What about the Softails, do they also have problems?

[GeorgeC]

I cam across a few other potential issues; are these legitimate claims?

The engine is not sufficiently secured to the frame causing weaving, wiggling, wobbles and rear wheel steer. There is a fix. ProgressiveSuspension.com makes brackets you can install yourself to stop the high speed wobble. True-Track also makes a fix for Dyna, Low Rider and Touring models.

The biggest problem is the poor design of the cam chain system. It still uses "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can still wear out, even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, for that is not a true fix. What is the problem? The shoes rub against the two chains and the shoes wear out. When they do there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that creates a catastrophic engine failure. What is the fix? You can purchase a gear set that eliminates the cam chains and shoes. Harley-Davidson should, in my opinion, make this a standard fix and not an after the fact option. If you can't afford to install the gear system, then you need to disassemble and inspect the inner and outer shoes every 15,000 miles or risk total engine failure. The shoe material can also clog the oil pump totally destroying the engine.

The shift drum is operated by a spring loaded awl and if this spring fails, and they do fail, the spring falls into the transmission gears and horrific damage takes place.
Another terrible problem all Twin-Cam engines have is the dreaded "crankshaft slip." A perfectly new bike with low miles can suddenly begin vibrating so badly it makes riding no fun anymore, even if the engine is rubber mounted.

As the 88 twin cam engine evolved to the 96 cubic inch a strain developed on the gears. In the year 2007 the inner bearing race was upgraded due to bearing failure. In the year 2010 the fifth gear was changed to a reverse-helical gear to neutralize the side load on the bearing. What does this mean to the average rider? It means if you hop up the engine on any twin-cam engine you risk a major transmission failure. So, you need to purchase and install a fifth gear and bearing/shaft update kit if you ride the bike hard (which many riders do). The race on the shaft can move, which lets the seal leak and the bearing walk/wobble more than it should accelerating wear and fail. Some riders have found this bearing failure twice in 40,000 miles. Mostly hard-ridden stock 88 and 96 will fail along with those with souped-up engines (pistons, cams including crankshaft long-stroked engines). But the new 103 cubic inch twin cam are not immune to transmission failure even though they have the updated kit installed at the factory.

The 88 cubic inch engine ran hot and at the high limits and the 96 cubic inch engine runs hotter yet which is not good for the engine. The 110 cubic inch engines run exceedingly hotter and so much so a class-action law suit was filed against Harley-Davidson from riders being burned from the engine heat (mostly from the rear cylinder near the rider's thighs).
The Twin-Cam bikes 3-phase 45 and 48 amp alternators burn up or they will burn up other electrical components. There is a cure. Replace the entire alternator with a new 50 amp unit manufactured by CycleElectric.com

To replace a worn or perforated belt the entire primary chain case must be taken apart along with the bike's swing arm. It is expensive to replace a belt or the transmission drive pulley. Most riders don't even think about this until the day comes they have to replace the belt and find out it will cost them $1,000.

[TaylorMcStrat]

The cut-and-paste is strong with you, young Skywalker.

[Rendell]

Originally Posted by GeorgeC

I have done research on the internet, however, I have learned more by talking to people and hearing their opinions. I currently ride a Roadstar, just thought it was time to add another bike to the stable.

For all the haters and arrogant members, why even read and post on a forum, if you're not willing to share information? Isn't that what a forum is, someplace to share information about a common interest?

The Harley website is fine for 2013 models, however, they do not go into detail on all the previous years and options, like 2002, 2004, etc...

George,
I shared fully, willingly and with a sense forum educate then you seemed Dog it with some arrogance. You came off as trollish, as I stated in my last post.

[Rendell]

BTW, as I've learned since I purchased mine is that when you buy a Harley you plan to spend at least 2K for the "Harley Tax"

[TaylorMcStrat]

George,

Before considering a Harley, I'd suggest you read this - err - rant titled: Why a Harley-Davidson Isn't a Real American Motorcycle.

http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/noharley2.html

[Jeffytune]

Originally Posted by GeorgeC

Jeffytune, Thank You!
So, I should plan on spending another $2K when I buy a Road King or the like??
What about the Softails, do they also have problems?

With the engine yes, with the true track, no.

But if your looking for a long range riding, any of the softails would be the wrong choice.

[Krayven Sumhead]

Duh-Fuh is a Stratoliner?

I thunk it was an airplane?

No?

[GeorgeC]

I'm just trying to get some answers before I buy. Are these issues or not? If they are not, please explain; some of you, like Jeffytune, have posted intelligent responses, others have not.
Don't be so defensive Rendell, I'm not trying to bash.

[BigD]

George, bottom-line is your comparing apples to oranges when talking Softail vs. Touring.

Honestly ask yourself a basic question:

Am I buying this bike for day rides or touring?

The Softail Heritage is a great day-ride bike and occassional touring bike. But, if you're plan is primarily touring, then the touring frame is your best bet. I have owned both and ultimately gave up the Heritage because my primary riding is touring. As it turns out, I have found the touring frame to be equally enjoyable on errands and day rides as the Heritage, where the Heritage cannot compete with the Ultra for touring.

Now consider:

Will I primarily ride single or two-up?

Again, Heritage is great for two-up day rides, but it cannot hold a candle to the touring frame for two-up riding, especially at distance.

JMHO, of course. There are die-hard Heritage fanatics that will flame me, which leads me to my third point.

It's all personal preference

[1bdBagr]

Originally Posted by GeorgeC

I cam across a few other potential issues; are these legitimate claims?

The engine is not sufficiently secured to the frame causing weaving, wiggling, wobbles and rear wheel steer. There is a fix. ProgressiveSuspension.com makes brackets you can install yourself to stop the high speed wobble. True-Track also makes a fix for Dyna, Low Rider and Touring models.

The biggest problem is the poor design of the cam chain system. It still uses "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can still wear out, even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, for that is not a true fix. What is the problem? The shoes rub against the two chains and the shoes wear out. When they do there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that creates a catastrophic engine failure. What is the fix? You can purchase a gear set that eliminates the cam chains and shoes. Harley-Davidson should, in my opinion, make this a standard fix and not an after the fact option. If you can't afford to install the gear system, then you need to disassemble and inspect the inner and outer shoes every 15,000 miles or risk total engine failure. The shoe material can also clog the oil pump totally destroying the engine.

The shift drum is operated by a spring loaded awl and if this spring fails, and they do fail, the spring falls into the transmission gears and horrific damage takes place.
Another terrible problem all Twin-Cam engines have is the dreaded "crankshaft slip." A perfectly new bike with low miles can suddenly begin vibrating so badly it makes riding no fun anymore, even if the engine is rubber mounted.

As the 88 twin cam engine evolved to the 96 cubic inch a strain developed on the gears. In the year 2007 the inner bearing race was upgraded due to bearing failure. In the year 2010 the fifth gear was changed to a reverse-helical gear to neutralize the side load on the bearing. What does this mean to the average rider? It means if you hop up the engine on any twin-cam engine you risk a major transmission failure. So, you need to purchase and install a fifth gear and bearing/shaft update kit if you ride the bike hard (which many riders do). The race on the shaft can move, which lets the seal leak and the bearing walk/wobble more than it should accelerating wear and fail. Some riders have found this bearing failure twice in 40,000 miles. Mostly hard-ridden stock 88 and 96 will fail along with those with souped-up engines (pistons, cams including crankshaft long-stroked engines). But the new 103 cubic inch twin cam are not immune to transmission failure even though they have the updated kit installed at the factory.

The 88 cubic inch engine ran hot and at the high limits and the 96 cubic inch engine runs hotter yet which is not good for the engine. The 110 cubic inch engines run exceedingly hotter and so much so a class-action law suit was filed against Harley-Davidson from riders being burned from the engine heat (mostly from the rear cylinder near the rider's thighs).
The Twin-Cam bikes 3-phase 45 and 48 amp alternators burn up or they will burn up other electrical components. There is a cure. Replace the entire alternator with a new 50 amp unit manufactured by CycleElectric.com

To replace a worn or perforated belt the entire primary chain case must be taken apart along with the bike's swing arm. It is expensive to replace a belt or the transmission drive pulley. Most riders don't even think about this until the day comes they have to replace the belt and find out it will cost them $1,000.

You know you can search the internet and dig up sh!t on likely ANY product, some truth and some biased towards other competing products.
My 2000 88" TC Road King runs fine and i DID upgrade/change the cam chain to gear drive w/ cams. Bagger wobble CAN be an issue, not every bike does, may depend on riding style and how bike is maintained. Tranny issue, never had that, Heat not a problem & Alternator fine. Mostly a bunch of alarmist bullsh!t if you ask me. You arent buying a damn space shuttle, get a 2002 Up Road King and you'll have many happy miles, quit overthinking this.
Tim

[jammer45u]

Originally Posted by GeorgeC

I cam across a few other potential issues; are these legitimate claims?

The engine is not sufficiently secured to the frame causing weaving, wiggling, wobbles and rear wheel steer. There is a fix. ProgressiveSuspension.com makes brackets you can install yourself to stop the high speed wobble. True-Track also makes a fix for Dyna, Low Rider and Touring models.

The biggest problem is the poor design of the cam chain system. It still uses "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can still wear out, even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, for that is not a true fix. What is the problem? The shoes rub against the two chains and the shoes wear out. When they do there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that creates a catastrophic engine failure. What is the fix? You can purchase a gear set that eliminates the cam chains and shoes. Harley-Davidson should, in my opinion, make this a standard fix and not an after the fact option. If you can't afford to install the gear system, then you need to disassemble and inspect the inner and outer shoes every 15,000 miles or risk total engine failure. The shoe material can also clog the oil pump totally destroying the engine.

The shift drum is operated by a spring loaded awl and if this spring fails, and they do fail, the spring falls into the transmission gears and horrific damage takes place.
Another terrible problem all Twin-Cam engines have is the dreaded "crankshaft slip." A perfectly new bike with low miles can suddenly begin vibrating so badly it makes riding no fun anymore, even if the engine is rubber mounted.

As the 88 twin cam engine evolved to the 96 cubic inch a strain developed on the gears. In the year 2007 the inner bearing race was upgraded due to bearing failure. In the year 2010 the fifth gear was changed to a reverse-helical gear to neutralize the side load on the bearing. What does this mean to the average rider? It means if you hop up the engine on any twin-cam engine you risk a major transmission failure. So, you need to purchase and install a fifth gear and bearing/shaft update kit if you ride the bike hard (which many riders do). The race on the shaft can move, which lets the seal leak and the bearing walk/wobble more than it should accelerating wear and fail. Some riders have found this bearing failure twice in 40,000 miles. Mostly hard-ridden stock 88 and 96 will fail along with those with souped-up engines (pistons, cams including crankshaft long-stroked engines). But the new 103 cubic inch twin cam are not immune to transmission failure even though they have the updated kit installed at the factory.

The 88 cubic inch engine ran hot and at the high limits and the 96 cubic inch engine runs hotter yet which is not good for the engine. The 110 cubic inch engines run exceedingly hotter and so much so a class-action law suit was filed against Harley-Davidson from riders being burned from the engine heat (mostly from the rear cylinder near the rider's thighs).
The Twin-Cam bikes 3-phase 45 and 48 amp alternators burn up or they will burn up other electrical components. There is a cure. Replace the entire alternator with a new 50 amp unit manufactured by CycleElectric.com

To replace a worn or perforated belt the entire primary chain case must be taken apart along with the bike's swing arm. It is expensive to replace a belt or the transmission drive pulley. Most riders don't even think about this until the day comes they have to replace the belt and find out it will cost them $1,000.

With the exception of the cam chain tensioners those are not legitimate concerns. There may have been isolated problems but nothing epidemic.

The cam chain tensioner problem on the twin cam was addressed in 2007. Anything that year or newer will be fine.

Buy a Harley, you won't be disappointed.

[streetg]

Originally Posted by 1bdBagr

You know you can search the internet and dig up sh!t on likely ANY product, some truth and some biased towards other competing products.
My 2000 88" TC Road King runs fine and i DID upgrade/change the cam chain to gear drive w/ cams. Bagger wobble CAN be an issue, not every bike does, may depend on riding style and how bike is maintained. Tranny issue, never had that, Heat not a problem & Alternator fine. Mostly a bunch of alarmist bullsh!t if you ask me. You arent buying a damn space shuttle, get a 2002 Up Road King and you'll have many happy miles, quit overthinking this.
Tim

Ya...what he said.
This is pretty simple, if your an after work and weekend rider and can't do any long extended touring, except for once every few years or so, then spend some time around HD's and buy whatever YOU LIKE. The occasional long trip every few years can be done on all of them.
If your gonna do a lot o touring, buy a bagger, any bagger you like.

[Lefty]

The only sure thing about anything mechanical is that at some point it will break down. Yamahas, Harleys, Vics, and pretty much all modern motorcycles are generally reliable if not heavily modified or abused. Buy what you like and enjoy it. And don't listen to the, "You can't or shouldn't tour on an XXX," BS. I've got a 70 year old buddy that tours on an '02 low rider with a windshield and rider backrest. He's put nearly 175k on that bike, the only mods being punched out baffles, better breathing ac, hydraulic cam tensioners and carb rejetting. Major breakdowns? None, just stuff like brake rotors, stator and voltage regulator after 100k. He says it's luxurious compared to the 550 Honda he toured on for many years.


Sent from my iPhone using MO Free

[RKC-Charlie]

Originally Posted by GeorgeC

I'm just trying to get some answers before I buy. Are these issues or not? If they are not, please explain; some of you, like Jeffytune, have posted intelligent responses, others have not.
Don't be so defensive Rendell, I'm not trying to bash.

George, I’m offended, as I posted a couple serious, correct replies. Then I realized you are a candidate for the Caption Bullshit award, so I stopped my serious replies.