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Old 10-29-2012, 11:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
When I buy a new bike or car, I stop the salesman when he tries to break down the price to me and tell me all the details on how it is structured. The only figure I want I tell him is the amount I need to write the check for to get the bike out of the dealership. I also ask him to include taxes, license, any transfer fees or anything else that might be included. (They seem to hate doing that). What I want to know is what the bike is really going to cost me. The rest is meaningless gibberish.
I'm the same way, just give the OTD price, that is all that matters to me. How they break it all down, I don't care about.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:10 AM   #17 (permalink)
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the only fee that's more bogus than 'dealer setup' is 'doc prep'!

charging that is just like stealing.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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What is their rationale for doc prep
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
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What is their rationale for doc prep
I suppose you're paying for two things--- the convenience of the dealership preparing and submitting paperwork to the DMV on your behalf and the specific DMV fees for the processing of that paperwork.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:18 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I agree. The "document" fee is the most blatant attempt at screwing a customer. It can be anywhere from $50-$250 and is almost never disclosed until after the customer has negotiated the price of the vehicle. In the past I simply refused to pay a doc fee telling them "just give me the bike and the certificate of origin and I'll go to the DMV to pay the tax and do my own paper work". Our state now requires dealers to collect the tax at the point of sale so I'll see how it works out next time. No way I'd pay more than $25 for a $15 per hour secretary to do 20 minutes of paperwork though.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:55 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Fees, fees, fees - everyone stacks on the fees. No getting away from it unless we stop buying their products 'cause there's always those that'll lay down and only want to know that the OTD figure is so they can write the check and be done with it.
BTW: Ya, it's somewhat unrelated but ALL of wireless providers charge a $30-$50 fee just to sign their 2 year contracts.....fees, fees, fees.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:49 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Prep

When i bought my 2008 FLHR i left HD & promptly hit the highway home. As i got off highway & slowed down i heard a rattle toward the front. Figured i pull over just in case it was important i could go back . YEP it was a rattle. My crash bar was not tightened up. I mean it was just put on , mabey finger tight. I made it home. Yeah it was all ready. Probably was lunch time & i came at the wrong time.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I understand the general public being skeptical of anything a dealership says.

Guys.... I wrenched in a dealership for 4 years. The bikes don't show up ready to roll onto the showroom floor. Some need more work than others.

They have to fit in a box. Models with taller handlebars are shipped with the bars swung down. They have to be adjusted. The hand controls as well. Most seats are not installed (no biggie, I know). On Electra Glide Standards and Ultras, the windshields are not installed, and the tour pak is installed in a more "forward" position, it has to be moved back.

I won't speak for all dealerships, but at the one I was at, we went over the bike pretty throughly. We checked the fuel levels and the belt tension. We took off the primary inspection covers and checked the primary chain and adjusted the clutch. Checked tire pressures. Took the bike for a ~10 mile ride, brought it back and insured no oil leaks (a few bad o-rings on crank position sensor were found this way). It was an easy hour or more of work.

Then the bike was washed/detailed. There was film/dirt in places.

Definitely not just rolled off the truck and into the showroom.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skitz43 View Post
When i bought my 2008 FLHR i left HD & promptly hit the highway home. As i got off highway & slowed down i heard a rattle toward the front. Figured i pull over just in case it was important i could go back . YEP it was a rattle. My crash bar was not tightened up. I mean it was just put on , mabey finger tight. I made it home. Yeah it was all ready. Probably was lunch time & i came at the wrong time.
All bikes that come standard with a crashbar, that is installed at the factory. That is not done at dealer prep.

We would try to check things such as that when bike was on lift. But it's not possible to check every single fastener on the bike in the time alloted. If the tech didn't touch it and see that it was loose, I can see it getting missed.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I was out at my dealer (Dudley Perkins HD of South San Francisco) the other day. I looked at the tags on the new bikes. There was a breakdown of all the charges. But what impressed me was that at the bottom of the page was the out the door price, tax, license, prep and doc fees included. So anyone looking at a bike would know what the real cost to him or her would be immediately.

That bottom line was the only line I looked at. I could have looked at the breakdown but it didn't matter to me how it was structured. All I really wanted to know was the out the door price and that is what I got on the bottom line. It was also the only number written big and in bold font. This is what they wanted you to see first.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperDude View Post
I understand the general public being skeptical of anything a dealership says.

Guys.... I wrenched in a dealership for 4 years. The bikes don't show up ready to roll onto the showroom floor. Some need more work than others.

They have to fit in a box. Models with taller handlebars are shipped with the bars swung down. They have to be adjusted. The hand controls as well. Most seats are not installed (no biggie, I know). On Electra Glide Standards and Ultras, the windshields are not installed, and the tour pak is installed in a more "forward" position, it has to be moved back.

I won't speak for all dealerships, but at the one I was at, we went over the bike pretty throughly. We checked the fuel levels and the belt tension. We took off the primary inspection covers and checked the primary chain and adjusted the clutch. Checked tire pressures. Took the bike for a ~10 mile ride, brought it back and insured no oil leaks (a few bad o-rings on crank position sensor were found this way). It was an easy hour or more of work.

Then the bike was washed/detailed. There was film/dirt in places.

Definitely not just rolled off the truck and into the showroom.
I'm quite sure all of that is true however, I believe all of that expense is already factored in to the MSRP price. Adding it on as a line item is simply an attempt to bolster a dealer's profit margin.

There are additional costs to a 10 lb sack of potatoes: washing, bagging, transportation, advertising, paying for counter space, etc. but it's all included in the $3.99 I pay for the bag.

Dealers put "Dealer Prep" into the sale for several reasons.

First, some people actually pay it.....chaaaaaaa-ching!

Second, they can offer to waive it as part of the negotiation of the deal thereby giving the customer the impression they are getting a better deal than they really are.

Call it what you will, it's nothing more than a money grab....and if I owned a dealership I'd charge it too but that doesn't mean it's not bogus!

When I'm looking at a bike to buy I establish my price for beginning my negotiations by taking "dealer prep" and "doc prep" off of the price on the bike.

All that said, I agree with Michael. Ultimately, the only thing that really matters is the final "out the door" price you are able to negotiate with the dealer.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:26 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I agree. The "document" fee is the most blatant attempt at screwing a customer. It can be anywhere from $50-$250 and is almost never disclosed until after the customer has negotiated the price of the vehicle. In the past I simply refused to pay a doc fee telling them "just give me the bike and the certificate of origin and I'll go to the DMV to pay the tax and do my own paper work". Our state now requires dealers to collect the tax at the point of sale so I'll see how it works out next time. No way I'd pay more than $25 for a $15 per hour secretary to do 20 minutes of paperwork though.
I guess it might be different from one state to the other. In Delaware the Documnet fee is the tax the state charges. That is not a dealer charge and we don't get any of that. The Doc fee in Delaware is 3.75% of the selling price minus your trade if you have one. We also do titling for Maryland residents too and in Maryland the Doc fee is 6%. We also charge an admin fee of $50.00 for Delaware residents and $52.50 for Maryland residents. Again that is a fee the states charge, not the dealership.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I guess it might be different from one state to the other. In Delaware the Documnet fee is the tax the state charges. That is not a dealer charge and we don't get any of that. The Doc fee in Delaware is 3.75% of the selling price minus your trade if you have one. We also do titling for Maryland residents too and in Maryland the Doc fee is 6%. We also charge an admin fee of $50.00 for Delaware residents and $52.50 for Maryland residents. Again that is a fee the states charge, not the dealership.
and we all know that the State wouldn't screw us........
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
I was out at my dealer (Dudley Perkins HD of South San Francisco) the other day. I looked at the tags on the new bikes. There was a breakdown of all the charges. But what impressed me was that at the bottom of the page was the out the door price, tax, license, prep and doc fees included. So anyone looking at a bike would know what the real cost to him or her would be immediately.

That bottom line was the only line I looked at. I could have looked at the breakdown but it didn't matter to me how it was structured. All I really wanted to know was the out the door price and that is what I got on the bottom line. It was also the only number written big and in bold font. This is what they wanted you to see first.
I guess they do things different in California. In Delaware it is impossible to put an OTD price on a bike on the floor. The OTD for one customer may be different than for another. For instance if we have a bike on the floor for say $18,595 the Delaware Doc fee is $697.00. Let's say you trade in a Sportster we give you $8,595 for it leaving a balance of $10,000.00 even. Now your Delaware Doc fee is $375.00! Live in Maryland with the same trade and it is $600.00. Live in any other state and you only pay MSRP and the tax, tags etc are paid when you register the bike in your state. There is no way we can put an OTD price on a bike on the floor because each deal is different and not all the fees are the same for everyone.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm quite sure all of that is true however, I believe all of that expense is already factored in to the MSRP price. Adding it on as a line item is simply an attempt to bolster a dealer's profit margin.

There are additional costs to a 10 lb sack of potatoes: washing, bagging, transportation, advertising, paying for counter space, etc. but it's all included in the $3.99 I pay for the bag.

Dealers put "Dealer Prep" into the sale for several reasons.

First, some people actually pay it.....chaaaaaaa-ching!

Second, they can offer to waive it as part of the negotiation of the deal thereby giving the customer the impression they are getting a better deal than they really are.

Call it what you will, it's nothing more than a money grab....and if I owned a dealership I'd charge it too but that doesn't mean it's not bogus!
It's not factored in the MSRP. See that high-ceilinged building you're standing in? See the folks in the little offices around the outside? See the guys who check-in your bike at the service desk? These people all need to be paid, the building has rent service due, a heating bill, cooling bill, trash pick up, cleaning, window washing, etc. Some months sales are really slow. All that "money grab" is just their way to stay in business. It just so happens the car/motorcycle world, these added fees have become the norm. The lure people in with the low sales proce the can advertise sans fees.

I've seen dudes like you who get all worked up over it, and maybe the dealer will take a small scrape on the deal to keep you happy - maybe they won't. I've watched guys buy bikes hundreds of miles away to save $500, only to pay $280 in gas, $100 in food, and the the rest on miscellaneous travel expenses.

It's like taxes. Florida doesn't have an income tax, but they have very high property taxes. In the same vein, it takes "X" amount of money to run a profitable dealership, and they need to get to "X" each year. I'm more annoyed with what the government does with the money they extort from me than what the local dealership does to run his business.
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