Fuel and Ethanol? : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums
» Sponsors

» Insurance
Go Back   V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums > V-Twin Forum > V-Twin Forum General Harley Talk
New User? Register Forgot Password

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2012, 12:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
IronButt
 
huskerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fayetteville, NC.
Posts: 1,021
huskerbob is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Fuel and Ethanol?

I came across this web site on another forum:

http://pure-gas.org/

It lists gas stations across the country that sell gasoline without ethanol added.

It's helpful but it also brought up another question.

Not all of the stations listed sell all octane levels without ethanol. Some sell 87, 89 & 91 or 93, others sell only 87, etc.

With that in mind my question is:

Since HD recommends 91 octane.......is it better to buy gas with a higher octane even if it contains ethanol...or....is it better to buy a lower octane and avoid the ethanol???

nothin's easy any more..........
huskerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-23-2012, 01:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Rendell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: El Dorado, AR
Posts: 669
Rendell wants to know Dino or Syn?
very good question... I'll be watching..
__________________
06 FLHTCUI Ultra Classic
88 inch, Stage 1, cheap-o slipons
Other than that is very stock.
Rendell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 03:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
IronButt
 
jammer45u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,779
jammer45u wants to know Dino or Syn?
I've been using that "recreational" gas for a few weeks now. No big difference in the performance or mileage. Maybe a little better mileage, but nothing dramatic. It sells for $4.09 at the local station to me, about $.50 more than premium. They are calling it 90 octane.

If you're all about cost per mile you probably won't be interested in this stuff. Plus, I think the newer bikes are designed to run on an ethanol blend.

In my opinion it's best for your old mower or small two stroke motor that rejects ethanol. You'll notice a lot of the stations selling it are marinas. Ethanol will separate, even in pre-mix, if it sits too long. It is a lot more abrasive than gasoline and heavier. When it separates it will lay on the bottom of the tank. Imagine that little 2 stroke outboard with an initial start up of pure ethanol. Not good.

I think the recreational gas sold at those stations will also work best for those who put their bikes up for winter. Ethanol is corrosive and holds moisture. In my opinion, pure gasoline would be much better for long term storage. Even if you add storage additive.
jammer45u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
IronButt
 
huskerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fayetteville, NC.
Posts: 1,021
huskerbob is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer45u View Post
I've been using that "recreational" gas for a few weeks now. No big difference in the performance or mileage. Maybe a little better mileage, but nothing dramatic. It sells for $4.09 at the local station to me, about $.50 more than premium. They are calling it 90 octane.

If you're all about cost per mile you probably won't be interested in this stuff. Plus, I think the newer bikes are designed to run on an ethanol blend.

In my opinion it's best for your old mower or small two stroke motor that rejects ethanol. You'll notice a lot of the stations selling it are marinas. Ethanol will separate, even in pre-mix, if it sits too long. It is a lot more abrasive than gasoline and heavier. When it separates it will lay on the bottom of the tank. Imagine that little 2 stroke outboard with an initial start up of pure ethanol. Not good.

I think the recreational gas sold at those stations will also work best for those who put their bikes up for winter. Ethanol is corrosive and holds moisture. In my opinion, pure gasoline would be much better for long term storage. Even if you add storage additive.

i wasn't really thinking in terms of mileage. rather my concern is the effect of ethanol on all of the parts & pieces in the motor. i admit i don't know enough about ethanol to know if that is a real concern or not

some say the motors are 'engineered' for the ethanol. others say they are not. me? well, i guess i don't know what to believe.
huskerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 03:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
IronButt
 
jammer45u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,779
jammer45u wants to know Dino or Syn?
Pure, 100% ethanol is abrasive. It actually wears out the hose fittings on tanker trucks that haul it. Some of the older engines didn't digest it very well. Fuel system parts were showing excessive wear and some seals were failing.

I'm sure all those problems have been resolved by now. Mixed at 10% it isn't going to hurt your bike.

Unless you're buying Canadian gasoline you've been using it for years. Around here, southeast Michigan, Mobil was the last to market pure gasoline, about 4 or 5 years ago. Now all pump gas here contains 10% ethanol.

I don't go way out of my way for it, but have been buying the pure gasoline when I can. Both my bikes are carburetor models. And I'm a fanatic.
jammer45u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 12:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
FNG :)
 
sirosis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ontario, canada
Posts: 24
sirosis wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer45u View Post
Pure, 100% ethanol is abrasive. It actually wears out the hose fittings on tanker trucks that haul it. Some of the older engines didn't digest it very well. Fuel system parts were showing excessive wear and some seals were failing.

I'm sure all those problems have been resolved by now. Mixed at 10% it isn't going to hurt your bike.

Unless you're buying Canadian gasoline you've been using it for years. Around here, southeast Michigan, Mobil was the last to market pure gasoline, about 4 or 5 years ago. Now all pump gas here contains 10% ethanol.

I don't go way out of my way for it, but have been buying the pure gasoline when I can. Both my bikes are carburetor models. And I'm a fanatic.



what is this Canadian gasoline you speak of.....
around here most of our gas has zero ethanol but closer to Toronto it all contains 10%.
The local HIGH test is 93 octane....but oddly enough would still predetonate when blipping the throttle on the stock 103.... the new pipes and fuel map cured that!!!

I personally do not like ethanol cuz it starts to separate within 30 days and being hygroscopic it collects moisture, not good for the old 2 strokes. it also burns dry and contains less btu per gallon than gasoline requiring more fuel to do the same job lowering your fuel mileage!
sirosis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 08:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
Seasoned Rider
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bethany
Posts: 57
spyglass wants to know Dino or Syn?
It seems ethanol is more prevalent in the states (or provinces) that grow lots of corn, as they usually have several conversion plants to produce it and may give tax breaks on it (much as the tobacco producing states do on that stuff....). Many stations here have signs out that tout their having "100% gasoline"....we grow very little corn here.
spyglass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 08:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
IronButt
 
jammer45u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,779
jammer45u wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirosis View Post
what is this Canadian gasoline you speak of.....
around here most of our gas has zero ethanol but closer to Toronto it all contains 10%.
The local HIGH test is 93 octane....but oddly enough would still predetonate when blipping the throttle on the stock 103.... the new pipes and fuel map cured that!!!

I personally do not like ethanol cuz it starts to separate within 30 days and being hygroscopic it collects moisture, not good for the old 2 strokes. it also burns dry and contains less btu per gallon than gasoline requiring more fuel to do the same job lowering your fuel mileage!
I don't like ethanol either. But it's a fact of life here in the States.

The Canadian gas I spoke of is normal pump gas available thru-out most of Canada. As you said, except for a few areas, it is free of ethanol. For the most part your gas is still the good stuff. Enjoy it before your politicians "fix it" like ours did.
jammer45u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 08:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
IronButt
 
jammer45u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 1,779
jammer45u wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyglass View Post
It seems ethanol is more prevalent in the states (or provinces) that grow lots of corn, as they usually have several conversion plants to produce it and may give tax breaks on it (much as the tobacco producing states do on that stuff....). Many stations here have signs out that tout their having "100% gasoline"....we grow very little corn here.
We grow A LOT of corn here, but the government mandating ethanol is causing a shortage of feed corn. Livestock production is suffering and beef prices are rising. Ethanol production is expensive, without heavy government subsidy it would be long gone.

Hopefully drilling in the North Dakota area will provide enough crude to force our EPA and the environmentalist to relax their attack on oil. Yeah, right. Like that will ever happen.
jammer45u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 08:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: East TN
Posts: 3,674
FLSTFI Dave wants to know Dino or Syn?
I try to not use ethanol when ever possible.

I have an E-85 car, meaning it is ok to use the 85% ethanol gas.

I tried it once, 25 cents a gallon cheaper for E-85. Well, my car did not perform as well, and the mpg went down to 23 mpg, vice the 30 I get on gas. Over all it cost me more money to use the E-85.

So I did a little looking into ethanol, it has less btu or energy per gallon than gas, that is why less mpg. Also, ethanol attracts water which is why it is so bad for 2 stroke small engines and other things that have gas sit in them for a long time.

Since then I avoid ethanol in my bikes when possible. I do not worry about it much when traveling but I do when the bike might sit 3 weeks in the winter.
__________________

13 CVO Road King Anniversary, #162
12 CVO Road Glide, White Gold Pearl / Starfire Black
03 FLSTFI Silver and Black, now has real fire radical paint set. 95", S&S 570G cams, V&H Big Shot Longs
11 FLHX Street Glide, Purple and black, wifes ride
09 FLSTC Heritage Teal and Antique White, wifes ride
FLSTFI Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
Seasoned Rider
 
kzoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Battle Creek, MI
Posts: 31
kzoo wants to know Dino or Syn?
I will have to start getting stocked up on Star Tron additive.
__________________
'04 Heritage Classic
Stage I
Old enough to know better, established enough to afford a good attorney
kzoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spokane,Wa
Posts: 1,316
RogerDodger wants to know Dino or Syn?
Odds are slim to none that you'd ever be able to design a trip where you can find non-ethanol gas at every stop....so, if your scoot pings on the cheap stuff you have no choice but to run premium with ethanol.
My bikes run and start better without ethanol and get better mileage to boot, but we're forced to almost always use premium with ethanol since that's the most available product.
RogerDodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 10:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 697
sportcruiser wants to know Dino or Syn?
The recreational gas is geared at boats and RV's that hold lots of fuel and tend to take weeks or months to use it up... ethanol doesn't store well as it absorbs water. While I would rather run pure gas in my bike, E10 will do it no harm as long as you ride frequently. In the winter, if you store the bike, add Startron or Stabil and have no worries.

Pure gas is no substitute for octane. My bike sees nothing but 93 octane and have never heard a single ping (that so many seem to report).
sportcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 11:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
Seasoned Rider
 
jsvt184's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 75
jsvt184 wants to know Dino or Syn?
There are a few gas stations that offer non-ethanol premium around here. I have been told it comes from Canada. I've noticed no difference in running it or e-10. Unfortunatly I can't get it after September which is precisely when us northerners want it for storage. I believe it is because the non-ethanol is a summer blend fuel and gas is transitioning over to winter blend at this time of year.
jsvt184 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2012, 12:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 697
sportcruiser wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvt184 View Post
There are a few gas stations that offer non-ethanol premium around here. I have been told it comes from Canada. I've noticed no difference in running it or e-10. Unfortunatly I can't get it after September which is precisely when us northerners want it for storage. I believe it is because the non-ethanol is a summer blend fuel and gas is transitioning over to winter blend at this time of year.
For what it is worth, as long as I use a stabilizer (I use Stabil) my generator, pressure washer and boat always start like I ran them the day before, even after sitting as long as 6 months with ethanol fuel in them. Use a good stabilizer and storage is not a worry.
sportcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
(C)2001-2012 V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved (C)2001- V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum