SERT, What is it? Get your answers here !!

[Killer-B]

Hey thanks. Now all I have to do is figure out how to plug it into my carburetor.

[Rock]

Originally Posted by Killer-B

Hey thanks. Now all I have to do is figure out how to plug it into my carburetor.

Tell me you're kidding right? Tell me you're kidding!

[V-ROD 1 FL]

Originally Posted by springer-

Unfortunately I do not believe you can transfer the stock MAP or any MAP that is currently loaded into your ECM back to the computer. That is one of the reasons that I recommend saving any and every change that you make as a new file on your PC so if you ever need an old MAP again you have it saved. The dealer can put a stock MAP back in if ever needed.

Again I have limited knowledge on a lot of the specifics so if anyone knows if this can be done, I would like to know for certain also.

Example, you create a MAP and upload it. You then save the MAP as "newpipes.mt5". You have some popping on deceleration. You go in and change a few settings and save the map again as "newpipesdecelpoptest1.mt5". You try it and the popping seems to be gone but you change a few things and try again "newpipesdecelpoptest2.mt5" but the bike now puffs black smoke on decel. you rename the MAP "newpipesdeceltoofat.mt5". Now you can refer back to that in the future to see what you did to cause that effect. You may also then rename the MAP that works as "newpipesnopop.mt5"

Springer:

Please let me add my appreciation for the SERT FOR DUMMY'S write up. the write up does answer A TON of questions that seem to get buried in the mass of documentation Harley provides.

My suggestion would be a simple flow or process chart WITH checkoffs to be sure that items like saving the files you create are actually completed before it's too late.

Your above post answered 1 of my questions. This issue seems to be critical for NEW motorcyles where the baseline ECM contents are not in the maps provided on the CD.

Also, it would seem to be to be far easier to retrieve the current MAP from the ECM and adjust the specific components requiring attention than to reload a map from the PC over what is already installed. SCARES ME!!

MY DELIMMA (THIS IS UNIQUE I KNOW)

THE BIKE: A 06 Ultra WITH a NEW 103" H.O. motor (and 6 speed tranny. Not that that makes a diffference).

SERT SOFTWARE: The newest version out with the "127" maps for the H.O.

THE PROBLEM: It seems that with the new ECM changes for the 06's and the new 06 softwarethat some of the maps got "corrupted" according to the factory reps. The corrected maps MAY be available by --say OCTOBER !!!! NICE CUSTOMER SENSITIVE SOLUTION "MBA" HARLEY GUY'S. Now what was it again you suggested that the customer is told??

A possible "work around solution" I thought of is to:

Open the highest performance 1550 Map that IS NOT CORRUPTED on the new 06 SERT VERSION and start making changes SLOWLY.

Save the incremental maps and load the results into the bike i/e:

SAVE # 1
The configuration: 1690 H.O. 6,500 RPM, Knock Sensor = On
Warm Up/Deceleration/ Idle MAPS

SAVE 2

Increment the values of the 2006 1550 MAP by at least 5% in the low ranges -- 20% thru 60% throttle.

Go For a test ride and try it out.

In your experience, am I on the right track or is there a easier way to get this thing operating properly and on the road?

Regards

[springer-]

Originally Posted by V-ROD 1 FL

Springer:

Please let me add my appreciation for the SERT FOR DUMMY'S write up. the write up does answer A TON of questions that seem to get buried in the mass of documentation Harley provides.

My suggestion would be a simple flow or process chart WITH checkoffs to be sure that items like saving the files you create are actually completed before it's too late.

Your above post answered 1 of my questions. This issue seems to be critical for NEW motorcyles where the baseline ECM contents are not in the maps provided on the CD.

Also, it would seem to be to be far easier to retrieve the current MAP from the ECM and adjust the specific components requiring attention than to reload a map from the PC over what is already installed. SCARES ME!!

MY DELIMMA (THIS IS UNIQUE I KNOW)

THE BIKE: A 06 Ultra WITH a NEW 103" H.O. motor (and 6 speed tranny. Not that that makes a diffference).

SERT SOFTWARE: The newest version out with the "127" maps for the H.O.

THE PROBLEM: It seems that with the new ECM changes for the 06's and the new 06 softwarethat some of the maps got "corrupted" according to the factory reps. The corrected maps MAY be available by --say OCTOBER !!!! NICE CUSTOMER SENSITIVE SOLUTION "MBA" HARLEY GUY'S. Now what was it again you suggested that the customer is told??

A possible "work around solution" I thought of is to:

Open the highest performance 1550 Map that IS NOT CORRUPTED on the new 06 SERT VERSION and start making changes SLOWLY.

Save the incremental maps and load the results into the bike i/e:

SAVE # 1
The configuration: 1690 H.O. 6,500 RPM, Knock Sensor = On
Warm Up/Deceleration/ Idle MAPS

SAVE 2

Increment the values of the 2006 1550 MAP by at least 5% in the low ranges -- 20% thru 60% throttle.

Go For a test ride and try it out.

In your experience, am I on the right track or is there a easier way to get this thing operating properly and on the road?

Regards

In theory any MAP will work to start off with but the closer you can get to your build, the less you will have to tune it in. My GUESS would be that your method would work but a Dyno would probably help considerably.

I would consider 6200 rev limit and knock=off while tuning.

In a stroker motor the piston speed and piston acceleration are elevated. If you want better longevity, run a lower rev limiter setting.

[V-ROD 1 FL]

Springer:

MANY THANKS for your response. I plan on trying to get things rolling this weekend IF the issue hasn't been resolved by one of my "Buds" before then.

Regards

[V-ROD 1 FL]

Springer:

Before you ask, it seems that the 1690 upgrade is now tied up with HD management and the dealer owners since the customer still doesn't have their bike back. There are STILL HD factory isssues with the 06 maps, 06 stock ECM and the 06 SERT software.

I mentioned to my guys your suggestions and that they could reprograme the ECM serial number using the Scanalizer ---something that they hadn't experienced yet.

In any event, a couple of the Techs went to Sturgis to help tune and repair bikes during the event (free room and board and eats with some money too) In any event, they said that they had an inordinate number of bike that had the SET installed and wre not running very well at all up in the hills. After loading down a CARTRIDGE up grade the bikes seems to run MUCH better. This was also the case with the Power Commander bikes too.

Many of the SERT owners forgot to bring their inline security connectors and software so they were screwed somewhat.

MY QUESTION: In your experience--Are the SERT and the Powercommander not able to adjust themselves to climate air and temperature changes as well as a cartridge?? I was under the impression that the code was the same and that the downloading and tuning was the difference.

(We ran into this issue down here in Florida a couple of years ago during Daytona Bike Week when it was so cold and dry up north and those bikes wouldn't run in the heat and humidity).

REGARDS

[springer-]

Originally Posted by V-ROD 1 FL

Springer:

Before you ask, it seems that the 1690 upgrade is now tied up with HD management and the dealer owners since the customer still doesn't have their bike back. There are STILL HD factory isssues with the 06 maps, 06 stock ECM and the 06 SERT software.

I mentioned to my guys your suggestions and that they could reprograme the ECM serial number using the Scanalizer ---something that they hadn't experienced yet.

In any event, a couple of the Techs went to Sturgis to help tune and repair bikes during the event (free room and board and eats with some money too) In any event, they said that they had an inordinate number of bike that had the SET installed and wre not running very well at all up in the hills. After loading down a CARTRIDGE up grade the bikes seems to run MUCH better. This was also the case with the Power Commander bikes too.

Many of the SERT owners forgot to bring their inline security connectors and software so they were screwed somewhat.

MY QUESTION: In your experience--Are the SERT and the Powercommander not able to adjust themselves to climate air and temperature changes as well as a cartridge?? I was under the impression that the code was the same and that the downloading and tuning was the difference.

(We ran into this issue down here in Florida a couple of years ago during Daytona Bike Week when it was so cold and dry up north and those bikes wouldn't run in the heat and humidity).

REGARDS

First I must remind you that I am far from an expert on the SERT and EFI systems in general. I have a basic understanding of how it all works but not a specific understanding of all the parts in the systems.

With that said, some of the terms I used may relate to a car EFI system more than the HD system. In the initial post I stated that the MAP sensor was a Mass Air Pressure sensor and over the weekend, while wiring a MAP sensor on a bike the instructions called it a Manifold Air Pressure sensor. I have always heard of it reffered to as a Mass Air Pressure sensor in the automotive field (right or wrong). UPDATE, informed it is "Manifold Absolute Pressure"

How does this help with your question? I would think the MAP sensor would compensate for the altitude since altitude effects the amount of air pressure. But not being a closed loop system (O2 sensor), I am not sure how it would effect it. Maybe Grock will read this and set us both straight, as I understand he is the man when it comes to fuel injection.

Scanalizer is not the tool used to set the VIN number, I believe it is called the Digital Tech or something like that. My understanding is that the scanalizer only reads the codes from the ECM??

The Flash loaded into the bike is just a default MAP for the ECM that works with a certain combination of parts, like a stage 1 for example. I don't believe there would be any reason that using a SERT to create a MAP for the ECM would be any different than a Flash.

[Rock]

Originally Posted by springer-

First I must remind you that I am far from an expert on the SERT and EFI systems in general. I have a basic understanding of how it all works but not a specific understanding of all the parts in the systems.

*TIBS*

[V-ROD 1 FL]

Springer:

THANKS VERY MUCH for sharing what you do know about the SERT and the Harley EFI system.

I am trying to read up on all of the information so that I can at least be proficient in how things work and have the ability to know what is feasible and what is not when dealing with technicians.

Unfortunately, we may be spending our time in vain since the new '06 Dyna's seem to have the begining of a REAL CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM by Harley.

By 2007 we just may see that concept incorporated in more of the Harley lines which would minimize the need for a SERT by most of the non-racing Harley owners.

Oh Yea, I read somewhere that the S&S closed loop system is REALLY a Daytona Twin TEC system marketed under their private label.

In addition, most of the aftermarket exhaust manufacturers are now adding plugged bung holes in their pipes --both front and rear.

So we may see a morphing over to this technology over the next 3 years.

MANY THANKS

REGARDS

[Steve Cole]

Springer

Good write up for those who are trying to get started. I have one correction for you in that you have misnamed MAP. It does not stand for Mass Air Pressure, it does stand for Manifold Absolute Pressure. Mass is a measure of weight of the air which is quite different. The following is from the SERT online help file:

MAP - Manifold Absolute Pressure

This sensor provides input signals to the ECM and reacts to intake manifold pressure and ambient barometric pressure. Intake manifold pressure reflects changes in engine speed and load. Ambient barometric pressure reflects changes in atmospheric pressure caused by weather conditions or changes in altitude. The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much air is entering the engine.

Again, good write up.

V-Rod 1

The latest SERT has all the '06 files with it. There is no problem working on the '06 models. What the dealer told you is almost correct, The SERT is the only thing that has all the files currently, so getting downloads at the dealer is a problem right now as the files used there are the ones that are screwed up. Most dealers are just selling the SERT until the problem is resolved.

[blueballs]

So you disable the knock sensor while making adjustmets to your tables but you go back and enable it before you load it on to the bikes ECM??


I have alot of reading to do, Thanks for the PDF. I personally feel this is the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to dialing in your bike. The price for this compared to the price of only one downloaded Program or map from the dealer is evidence enough for me to take the plunge on this.
FYI-
I have an 02 Acura RSX type S that has a reflashable ECM similar to these and an aftermarket company called Hondata came up with a program like SERT called K-pro. It even allows you to play around with cam angles due to the variable cam sprocket used on I-Vtec engines. The point i'm tryin to make is that this company charges a thousand bucks for their program. The SERT is very reasonably priced, especially coming from HD

[springer-]

Originally Posted by Steve Cole

Springer

Good write up for those who are trying to get started. I have one correction for you in that you have misnamed MAP. It does not stand for Mass Air Pressure, it does stand for Manifold Absolute Pressure. Mass is a measure of weight of the air which is quite different. The following is from the SERT online help file:

MAP - Manifold Absolute Pressure

This sensor provides input signals to the ECM and reacts to intake manifold pressure and ambient barometric pressure. Intake manifold pressure reflects changes in engine speed and load. Ambient barometric pressure reflects changes in atmospheric pressure caused by weather conditions or changes in altitude. The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much air is entering the engine.

Again, good write up..

Thanks, I have updated the thread with the correct information.

[springer-]

Originally Posted by blueballs

So you disable the knock sensor while making adjustmets to your tables but you go back and enable it before you load it on to the bikes ECM??

My understanding is you disable it while making changes to the MAP and loading it in the bike to test it. Last thing you do after you are happy with your adjustments is enable the knock sensor and load the final map.

[Griffiss]

Here's one you won't believe, I have been using the SERT for 2 years and read everything I can find on it, and still lerned from this thread. I had my bike Dynoed out of town by a SERT trained tech. I also asked him lots of questions, now my local service manager asked ME to come teach his techs about the SERT basics as none of them are trained in exchange for some free work wahoo, this thread just became a teaching handout. Thanks for the info! And also to Doc and Grock and Steve Cole who helped educate me. The more techs learn the better we all are, first question I got was how do you stop popping on decel, and I can honestly say that one is easy! Thanks Dave for this forum!

[Ozzie In Arabia]

Well Done Springer - Best Post of the year award 2005 bro!!!


All the best, Ozzie

(been a little sick lately so not much time to post, got my VTF Member Patch through a very good man named Snowman, who was here in Saudi Arabia well before me and I have joined him in the big sandpit ha!, so all is well!)