Tuned Bike????????????

[Hillsidecycle.com]

A while back we had shipped an engine to a client in the state of Washington.
UPS harmed the fins on the front head, even though that it was shipped in an S&S engine shipping container.
UPS inspected it and we were given the go on payment/replacement.
UPS then called and in so many words, told us to go pi$$ up a rope.
Anyway, the client sent the whole bike to get squared away, to include the tuning in which he had questioned , as we did also.
Funny thing how time can sort things out.
Anyway,after the cylinder head replacement, the bike was sent to Joe's Cycle Repair.
Joe called me as soon as he had collected baseline data, and had never known of numbers prior on this tune.
Much to mosts disbelief (in regards to Joe) the numbers he told me over the phone were actually a 1-2 lower than the numbers that had been handed our client, tuned from another outfit.
Joe alerted me to a "canned" map, (timing tables were never touched) had been dropped in and the entire map was running at 12.6. Other than that it was perfect.(how about them apples ADLERX?)
This bike was "tuned" by the other outfit in 12 pulls.
Joe had 74 runs on this when he had called yesterday after working this over, during a 2 day period, and it still incomplete.
When the bike hit his doors he saw 108 hp and 120 ft/lbs(almost the same as the experts had tuned it at) from the "tuned", 117" with our Stage II heads and a Bob Wood 8.
The machine is roughed in, close, but it is running at 124 hp and 130 ft/lbs.
How did the man see the almost identical numbers as the other outfit released it, and then get so much more??
Is his dyno off?? If it off, why did it not show that, out of the gate?? I do not understand??
Joe has been pummeled on here and other sites, and the heavens open, and the angels sing, at the mere thought of the other outfits name.
Is something really fu(ked here, or am I missing it, all togather???
Scott

[Abnmarine]

Interesting. No answer for you but I already talked to Joe about tuning my 124" for me in September. I should have it installed by then. My reasoning for going to him besides the fact that I feel he does a good job tuning bikes is for two reasons. First, he is the only tuners that is within 200 miles from me that I know will spent the time (70-100 pulls) to get the tune correct and second, he is familar with the TMax.
I should have a good tweaked base map installed once I do a few data runs for him to begin. I don't give a **** what the #'s say just as long as the bike runs good throughout the rpms.

[wfolarry]

I think you answered your own question with '12 pulls & it's done' compared to '74 & not done yet'. That's the problem everywhere. Here 12 pulls is considered a lot. They want to get them in & out like cattle. Be glad you have a tuner that's willing to put the time in that it needs to get everything out of it. You're lucky.

[BVBOB]

I am pretty sure I know the build you are speaking of and glad to hear he got it sorted out, you don't happen to have any sheets of the before/after at Joes and the "other" place and reporting methods used (sae, std, uncorrected etc.)

[YankeeBob]

[Totenkopf]

Scott,
It depends on the particulars and as BVBob suggests, some light could be shed on the situation if you could post the before and after sheets with afr data, any run files and so forth. No one here that I have seen has ever said Joe can't tune, it's just his method of using uncorrected data in the winter time to get extraordinary results that is questionable when you cannot see the weather station data on the sheets. The other thing is that JCR might have one of those DJ's that has the wrong drum correction factor in the software but that would need to be verified by s/n and a call to DJR in Vegas. DJR have admitted to knowing of ~60 of those out in the field. The whole impossible VE thing comes back to mind.

on a separate topic....
What kind of results are you seeing with 103's running your heads with the vortex thing and the TW-7 at 10.5:1 running a good 2-1 and a max'ed out tune?

all the best!

[Hillsidecycle.com]

As per Joe, 30 seconds ago, actual and SAE, were identical.
Interesting, to say the absolute least.

[TXCHOP]

Scott, congrats!

The numbers sound great as usual and expected!

The most important part will come soon for you and your client though. When your client takes that first ride since the bike was actually TUNED, and calls you up still shaking from holding the hell on now! That's the tough part about doing heads/motors for guys that dont live local or have acces to a good dyno tuner.

Glad it all worked out in the end for everyone, well except the alleged "tuner" that couldnt do it right the first time. I have ridden several bikes tuned by Joe and none dissapointed!

[Totenkopf]

Originally Posted by Hillsidecycle.com

As per Joe, 30 seconds ago, actual and SAE, were identical.
Interesting, to say the absolute least.

it's no surprise that uncorrected and corrected are the same at this time of the year when the actual temperature is so close to the temperature used in the SAE correction formula. The problem happens when the temperature is way below the standard, like in the dead of winter but I know you and Joe know this.

How about answering that question I asked you on the 103" combination???? Thanks!

All the best!

[Hillsidecycle.com]

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

it's no surprise that uncorrected and corrected are the same at this time of the year when the actual temperature is so close to the temperature used in the SAE correction formula. The problem happens when the temperature is way below the standard, like in the dead of winter but I know you and Joe know this.

How about answering that question I asked you on the 103" combination???? Thanks!

All the best!

Funny you would ask that.........., as no such animal exists.
Bob Wood does not grind the 7 cam, (.500 lift, 248*dur. 22/46 in,
48/20 ex., 102/104 centers) for Twin Cam application.
He only offers it for Evo engines, and it rips, set up correctly.
He does, however have one ground which is a 7H, which is -.015" less lift than the 6H.
I'll have to call Joe, and request no more tuning in those conditions, for you.
Merry Christmas.

[77Ironhead]

FWIW - My company stopped shipping anything of value via UPS years ago. They won't stand behind damaged goods worth a Fuuk regardless of how it was packed and insured. We bought two servers one time to the tune of about 9K for a customer because UPS wouldn't honor the shipping damage insurance - said it wasn't packed correctly. BS

[Hillsidecycle.com]

Originally Posted by 77Ironhead

FWIW - My company stopped shipping anything of value via UPS years ago. They won't stand behind damaged goods worth a Fuuk regardless of how it was packed and insured. We bought two servers one time to the tune of about 9K for a customer because UPS wouldn't honor the shipping damage insurance - said it wasn't packed correctly. BS

We had the powerplant insured for plenty, and then some.
I physically helped the UPS driver load the unscathed container onto the truck.
UPS has a savage noteriarty, of late, to totally deny any wrong doings, whatsoever, as even their own employees will attest to.

[Totenkopf]

Originally Posted by Hillsidecycle.com

Funny you would ask that.........., as no such animal exists.
Bob Wood does not grind the 7 cam, (.500 lift, 248*dur. 22/46 in,
48/20 ex., 102/104 centers) for Twin Cam application.
He only offers it for Evo engines, and it rips, set up correctly.
He does, however have one ground which is a 7H, which is -.015" less lift than the 6H.
I'll have to call Joe, and request no more tuning in those conditions, for you.
Merry Christmas.

7H is the one.... but you knew which one I was talking about.

So, what are your typical results in your experience for the 7H combination I described above with your heads in a 103"? I'm not baiting you, I just want to know for a comparison I'm doing. Thanks.

re: tuning
tuning is fine in those conditions as long as the reported results include the correction for the cold air intake. Same goes for when you tune and the dyno bay is at 103*F, in this case, that is how you compensate for low numbers when tuned.

All the best!

[SEDELUXE]

i guess Joe verified what two other tuners have said a while ago. and they were told they were wrong.
i guess its all water under the bridge.
as long as its not my water or my bridge.

[hrdtail78]

Wow, got to pound your own chest and rip on a tuner (who we can all figure out who) all in the same post. All with out any shred of evidence.

Seems to me you know your way around an engine. I like reading your tech post. Dont like the tactics you use for advertising. I would let your work speak for itself through others.