ScreaminEagle - No Oil Pressure...HELP-HELP-HELP...!?!?!

[Coolmaker]

I knew that I loved living down south (riding year around), but after the description of the Harley dealers up there by you guys. I am blessed to be living down here. I only go to the dealers for parts, as I wrench my own, but all the ones down here are courteous and go out of their way to help. Good luck....

[schmeg]

I do all my own wrenching, but when I need Harley OEM stuff, I still need to go to the dealer. Also I'm new to the Harley scene ( owned and worked at a Honda dealership for years) and am learning the Harleyism's of the Twin Cam, and a knowledgeable parts counterman always helps. I don't like rolling up to the counter and asking for a MAP sensor and getting a "deer in the headlights" look. I am sympathetic to the young teen learning the ropes, I was one of those 30 years ago, but they at least need to hire youth that is motivated to learn about bikes and what makes them run, not just sell chrome accessories, which is what the dealers seem to be geared for. Its forums like this one and Indy's willing anough to share info that have been invaluable to me. I can't say enough about the generosity of the truly nice people on this board and the others. Jay

[lowrider01]

not trying to take up for the dealers,but alot of them are just learning,i do my own wrenching.i also do alot of research before i tackle a job,but surprises still show up.........i used to ride or trailer my bike 110 miles,i finally got the nads to tackle my bike myself,get this,a tech at the hd dealer took me aside and told me i probably knew more about this than some of their guys,some dealerships have a more stricker service dept,they want quality more than quantity,.......sometimes it works,sometimes it don't,i feel if i'm gonna ride,i'm gonna do my own stuff to my bike,so if something happens i won't be in the dark,

[cts1950]

Larry
The biggest thanks is to boriqua_biker He is the one who had that service bulletin and posted it. This has been a learning experience for me too I had no idea that there was a difference in the cases between 99 and 00.My only experience with HD is with my 1999 ultra. I have had almost every thing apart to update it or rebuild. I just recently did my 103 conversion which took me through the same experience you have been dealing with. I have three dealers in about a 20 mile radius. only one will I buy more than oil from. It is the one wear they remembered my name. I am now on a first name biases with the parts manager and he has been a great help to me over the years. If he did not know a answer he would get on the phone and find out for me.
I wonder if this is the only major difference between the 99 and 00>. Hope you are on the road soon good luck.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by cts1950

Larry
The biggest thanks is to boriqua_biker He is the one who had that service bulletin and posted it. This has been a learning experience for me too I had no idea that there was a difference in the cases between 99 and 00.My only experience with HD is with my 1999 ultra. I have had almost every thing apart to update it or rebuild. I just recently did my 103 conversion which took me through the same experience you have been dealing with. I have three dealers in about a 20 mile radius. only one will I buy more than oil from. It is the one wear they remembered my name. I am now on a first name biases with the parts manager and he has been a great help to me over the years. If he did not know a answer he would get on the phone and find out for me.
I wonder if this is the only major difference between the 99 and 00>. Hope you are on the road soon good luck.

Well its a no go folks....!
I tapped & plug the hole, still no oil pressure.
I made sure of every step VERY carefully, but still no oil pressure.
Does any of you have a way to post/upload that bullitin to me...?
What comes in that support kit...? Maybe i missed something else (???)

(larry)

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by Coolmaker

I knew that I loved living down south (riding year around), but after the description of the Harley dealers up there by you guys. I am blessed to be living down here. I only go to the dealers for parts, as I wrench my own, but all the ones down here are courteous and go out of their way to help. Good luck....

Hi coolmaker...
I think what the real problem is, ther is no compatition for them here at all... so they can treat anybody how they want, around here. The people are stuck with dealing with it or they will drive way outta town to the next closest dealer to avoid the attitudes... but most wont, because its too far to drive to the next dealer at over $4 a gallon for gas here. I`m between a rock an a hard place, i dont have much of a choice... when i need something fast, i`m stuck with going to the nasty locals... otherwise, i usually just order everything i need from zanottimotors in butler pa. They give you 20% automatically... no other stealers will do that around here. They always want list price for EVERYTHING they sell.


(larry)

[cts1950]

From what I was able to read from that service bulletin it included a self tapping screw a sealing ring to under the screw head and a O ring.
Do you have a mighty vac the little hand vacuum pump. I was thinking that you could test your oil passages to the tank by trying to pump some up through the inlet hole. The lower of the two hoses is the pick up hose. It has been my experience with those hoses get brittle and can't be removed without destroying them but you could see if that passage is obstructed. If you have the lower hose off you could rig up a hose to a tank of oil and see if you could get it to pull oil through the hose. I had problems with my fueling pump during installation and cut the thin one that seals the pump to plate. Luckily it came with a spare.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by cts1950

From what I was able to read from that service bulletin it included a self tapping screw a sealing ring to under the screw head and a O ring.
Do you have a mighty vac the little hand vacuum pump. I was thinking that you could test your oil passages to the tank by trying to pump some up through the inlet hole. The lower of the two hoses is the pick up hose. It has been my experience with those hoses get brittle and can't be removed without destroying them but you could see if that passage is obstructed. If you have the lower hose off you could rig up a hose to a tank of oil and see if you could get it to pull oil through the hose. I had problems with my fueling pump during installation and cut the thin one that seals the pump to plate. Luckily it came with a spare.

Yeup, i tried the "mighty vac" pump trick... nothing is blocked anywhere.
(the bike was fine, until i installed this new SE camplate and pump - nothin else was changed)
I went thru this thing a million times checking everything, i just dont get it.
I`ve built well over a hundred twincams for others here locally, so its not like i`m a newbie at this.
Do you think ther`s another port or somethin in there that needs to be plugged up...?
The hole i tapped was the size of a #7 drill for a 1/4x20 (was that the right hole to plug off...?)
I am just so baffled by this thing.... i`m about ready to pull it all out an say to hell with it.

You dont happen to have any pictures of yours when you did it do you...?


(larry)

[cts1950]

I assume you still have the old cam plate. If you compare the two you should be able to see the extra hole on the new cam plate. The relief valve is held in place with a spring held in cross bore in the plate with a roll pin. On mine the spring was badly bent and the valve was sticky. I assumed it was part open. If you look at the oil circuit from the pressure side of the oil pump to the oil gallery in the cam plate the relief valve when open will send the pumped oil right back to the inlet of the pump. If the valve is stuck open it can't build pressure. When the extra port was open before I plugged it would pump oil it just blew it back into the cam gallery. That is why I asked if you tried to crank it over with the cam cover off to see if you had a flood of oil. You said earlier that the cam gallery was dry which makes me think the pump is not working at all. Try putting the old pump on the new cam plate if it will mate up properly. It is just a test but it sounds like you have tried most every thing else.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by cts1950

I assume you still have the old cam plate. If you compare the two you should be able to see the extra hole on the new cam plate. The relief valve is held in place with a spring held in cross bore in the plate with a roll pin. On mine the spring was badly bent and the valve was sticky. I assumed it was part open. If you look at the oil circuit from the pressure side of the oil pump to the oil gallery in the cam plate the relief valve when open will send the pumped oil right back to the inlet of the pump. If the valve is stuck open it can't build pressure. When the extra port was open before I plugged it would pump oil it just blew it back into the cam gallery. That is why I asked if you tried to crank it over with the cam cover off to see if you had a flood of oil. You said earlier that the cam gallery was dry which makes me think the pump is not working at all. Try putting the old pump on the new cam plate if it will mate up properly. It is just a test but it sounds like you have tried most every thing else.

I compared both camplates side by side, so i was pretty confident that i tapped & plugged the correct hole.
Yeup, i pulled the relief valve and spring out, worked smooth in an out of the bore. (spring was ok too)
I agree, i will pull the cover off an see if i can see any oil coming out of the plate anywhere by turning it over.
The pumps are quite different from each other, but i`ll see if the old one will bolt up.
(anything is worth a shot at this point, but i dont think it`ll align up to the new camplate)
I also took the pump apart, everything internally was correct when i took it apart.

I`m begining to wonder if the camplate itself was drilled/bored out properly from the factory. Ther has just got to be something wrong with this pump/plate kit. I even spun a new oil filter on the bike, just to settle any thoughts on THAT being a problem. I have covered everything i can possibly think of. My last option is to pull it all out and put the original plate and pump back in it. At least i KNOW that works fine, and i also have the baisley spring in it. I just wish i could talk to the MoCo factory about this problem, but we all know where that`ll go. Its such a shame that i paid such big money for this item, and it dosent work. The SE catalog says it fits all 99to05 Dyna & Softail & Touring (Part #25283-07)


(larry)

[FLHR2000]

Larry, any chance you have the oil pump internals installed out of sequence?

That's a common mistake.

[cts1950]

This may be stretch and grasping at straws. since the dana dose not have a oil pressure sender you may not have been getting much out of the original pump. If you had some foreign parts in the oil tank the added flow of the new pump sucks harder and pulls the loose material into the oil pickup in the tank and blocks it completely. Or it causes the inner liner in the pickup supply hose to collapse with out the outside cover showing it. I think those are a multi layer hose. You have exhausted almost all other options. It might be worth dropping the bottom off the oil tank for a look. Having a totally defective pump is unlikely.
I have done some checking and I think my suspicions are correct. I think the part number of the pump included with the kit is a stock 06 twin cam pump. I believe they went to a high volume pump that year. I can't find reference to any newer oil pump on the online catalogues. I was looking at the manuals of a 07 engine and I do not think the old pump will mate up to the new cam plate the inlet port has been moved.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by FLHR2000

Larry, any chance you have the oil pump internals installed out of sequence?

That's a common mistake.

Yes, a VERY common mistake indeed, but i checked it twice on both tear downs just to make sure, and it is correct.

Thanks much for throwin the idea out there budd


(larry)

[thomblack]

east coast attitude, move west, even the hd dealers here are cool! i relocated from new england, (east coaster for 37 years), to wyoming 11 years ago. i would never even consider moving back east. hd dealers are few and far between here in the northern rockies, but they are very helpful and they care!
tb

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by cts1950

This may be stretch and grasping at straws. since the dana dose not have a oil pressure sender you may not have been getting much out of the original pump. If you had some foreign parts in the oil tank the added flow of the new pump sucks harder and pulls the loose material into the oil pickup in the tank and blocks it completely. Or it causes the inner liner in the pickup supply hose to collapse with out the outside cover showing it. I think those are a multi layer hose. You have exhausted almost all other options. It might be worth dropping the bottom off the oil tank for a look. Having a totally defective pump is unlikely.
I have done some checking and I think my suspicions are correct. I think the part number of the pump included with the kit is a stock 06 twin cam pump. I believe they went to a high volume pump that year. I can't find reference to any newer oil pump on the online catalogues. I was looking at the manuals of a 07 engine and I do not think the old pump will mate up to the new cam plate the inlet port has been moved.

Hello Howdy Hi There cts1950...
Grasping at straws...
hell yeah budd, i`m VERY open minded to ANY and ALL idea`s... ANYTHING is worth an extra look or a check over.
I pulled the pan last night... its super clean (i think the oil & filter changed every 2,000 miles had alot to do with that...lol)
The hose`s are in perfect shape (i checked them for hardness, softness and cracks... they`re good as new hose`s)
You`re correct, the old pumps wont fit the SE billit camplate.
(i was pretty much already aware of that when i compared them side by side)
Defective pump or camplate...? (you`re right, probably unlikely, but IS possible)

The pump is stamped 06 (it definately is the NEW Hi-Volume pump)
The part number to the whole SE billit kit is: 25283-07
According to the P&A book, this kit fit`s the 99 to 05 dyna`s & softails.

Juzz dunno buddie,
i`m just as dumbfouned with this as everybody else involved in this deal is.
I`ve checked everything so many times, i`m having nightmare`s over it...lol

I wanna tell you that i so very much appreciate ALL your help, thoughts and idea`s...
i am NO WAY ready to give up on this bike... somethin`s gotta give, sooner or later,
but it sure as hell wont be me...lol.

(larry)