CNC heads VS hand ported?

[roofeditor]

I wonder if guys like bigboyz hand port or do a CNC. I realize that CNC is not magic, but it does allow you to take a excellent hand port and duplicate it over and over. By hand porting in theory each could be a great port but then again there could be a lot of variances.

Flow numbers of bigger and more flow on Harley's driven on the street are not as important as higher velocity numbers a way different approach. so while big valves and big ports may make a bunch of HP at 6000 RPM's, who actually drives there. On baggers Doc from Orlando and I have had a few conversations and regardless of what you think, if ya are really honest about it, full dresser baggers spend a lot of time in the 2,500 - 3,500 range so why not build the engine to pull very strong there. Pulling strong past 5,000 on a bagger really doesn't do for much for me.

I'm thinking that a good proven street port, a Woods 6-6 cam, 103 bore with a little compression boost to about 9:6 or a little more but under 10:1, a D and D 2-1 Quiet baffle exhaust a VERY good tune and you are in the 100HP and 110 torque range for reasonable money and not really hurting the longevity and drive-ability of the bike.

Just for the heck of it who uses CNC and who uses hand porting? What does a CNC cost and how much faster is it than doing it the good old way.

[bikernut]

I hand ported my 03 heads...pretty crappy castings...not even close to the seat diameters ....runs like a bitch

[wfolarry]

I agree with what you're saying. I hand port [the old -fashion way] But I've flow tested a lot of CNC heads & they are very consistent. A good porter can do just what you want. The problem I have [and I'm sure others have too] is trying to convince a customer. Too many are looking for bragging rights with that dyno sheet instead of looking at the real picture like you described. Built the right way the torque comes on fast & will make that bike a more enjoyable ride. That's the way my bike is and I can twist that throttle without dropping a gear & the bike pulls. Torque is everything. JMO

[SEDELUXE]

Originally Posted by roofeditor

I wonder if guys like bigboyz hand port or do a CNC. I realize that CNC is not magic, but it does allow you to take a excellent hand port and duplicate it over and over. By hand porting in theory each could be a great port but then again there could be a lot of variances.

Flow numbers of bigger and more flow on Harley's driven on the street are not as important as higher velocity numbers a way different approach. so while big valves and big ports may make a bunch of HP at 6000 RPM's, who actually drives there. On baggers Doc from Orlando and I have had a few conversations and regardless of what you think, if ya are really honest about it, full dresser baggers spend a lot of time in the 2,500 - 3,500 range so why not build the engine to pull very strong there. Pulling strong past 5,000 on a bagger really doesn't do for much for me.

I'm thinking that a good proven street port, a Woods 6-6 cam, 103 bore with a little compression boost to about 9:6 or a little more but under 10:1, a D and D 2-1 Quiet baffle exhaust a VERY good tune and you are in the 100HP and 110 torque range for reasonable money and not really hurting the longevity and drive-ability of the bike.

Just for the heck of it who uses CNC and who uses hand porting? What does a CNC cost and how much faster is it than doing it the good old way.

man you hit the nail on the head.. im tired of hearing about how fast these heads rev compared to others. Its not like everyone out there are racing each other. On the track where a few tenths of a second means the diffrence between winning and losing fine. but where the rubber meets the road imo a decent set of heads for a decent buck will yeild you just as much fun and still have change for a beer.
I hear all kinds of stuff lately but i dont hear no one claiming to have a map close to a build for efi so you can get some miles on the bike for those expensive builds.

[route66paul]

CNC is only as good as it ids programmed to be. Consistancy is great, but casting drift can ruin that. You also stillhave to clean up afterwards, there is always something the program couldn't do. I would want the good porter to do my work, the problem is that as soon as he has a lot of customers, the porting will be done by an employee. How do you know if your heads are being done by the porter that did your friend's heads. you don't.

I like the have my parts machined by the guy that has been aroung 10 years, rides/races HDs, and has a (pretty much)one man shop. I want the big guy doing the work or at least the Q.C.

That is my .02

[KingofCubes]

I've said it before and I'll say it again that I hand ported heads out of this company for 17 years and flew out to R&R Cycle and saw there operation in 2000 and decided to quit hand porting head on the way back home, best move I've made in a long time and it's not because I was lousy at it either. I have satisfied customers all over the globe with my hand ported stuff. The cnc porter I use is able to take out core shift on the fly and his velocity is unmatched. Talk to the MasterCam engineers down in Connecticut and ask them why 50 NASCAR teems are using Reggie's technology. The quick reving thing is not only good for gear heads but is a testiment of VE of the engine design of which R&R knows about inside and out. We get from $550.00 to $1,250.00 for this and the consistancy is outstanding. Don't take my word for it ask Joe's Cycle repair or Latus Motors how fast and easy the R&R stuff dyno tunes, ask Doc how many hours he has spent (needlesly) tuning the wrong stuff and you will see that this is money well spent- either pay for the best porting work in the country or pay for many hours of tuning, your choice.

[SEDELUXE]

Originally Posted by KingofCubes

I've said it before and I'll say it again that I hand ported heads out of this company for 17 years and flew out to R&R Cycle and saw there operation in 2000 and decided to quit hand porting head on the way back home, best move I've made in a long time and it's not because I was lousy at it either. I have satisfied customers all over the globe with my hand ported stuff. The cnc porter I use is able to take out core shift on the fly and his velocity is unmatched. Talk to the MasterCam engineers down in Connecticut and ask them why 50 NASCAR teems are using Reggie's technology. The quick reving thing is not only good for gear heads but is a testiment of VE of the engine design of which R&R knows about inside and out. We get from $550.00 to $1,250.00 for this and the consistancy is outstanding. Don't take my word for it ask Joe's Cycle repair or Latus Motors how fast and easy the R&R stuff dyno tunes, ask Doc how many hours he has spent (needlesly) tuning the wrong stuff and you will see that this is money well spent- either pay for the best porting work in the country or pay for many hours of tuning, your choice.

im going to say this again Randy i never doubted r&r is good stuff. are they the best well their probley one of the best . They are definatly on the cutting edge and their stuff works.

[MaineUltraClassic]

Originally Posted by route66paul

CNC is only as good as it ids programmed to be. Consistancy is great, but casting drift can ruin that. You also stillhave to clean up afterwards, there is always something the program couldn't do. I would want the good porter to do my work, the problem is that as soon as he has a lot of customers, the porting will be done by an employee. How do you know if your heads are being done by the porter that did your friend's heads. you don't.

I like the have my parts machined by the guy that has been aroung 10 years, rides/races HDs, and has a (pretty much)one man shop. I want the big guy doing the work or at least the Q.C.

That is my .02

That's what great about Big Boyz............Bean is the only man doing working there. Bean does all the porting and valve jobs, Springer does the polishing work. I'd take another set of heads to Big Boyz in a heart beat..........can't be beat for the price and he'll do whatever you want done to them.

Steve

[roofeditor]

Originally Posted by MaineUltraClassic

That's what great about Big Boyz............Bean is the only man doing working there. Bean does all the porting and valve jobs, Springer does the polishing work. I'd take another set of heads to Big Boyz in a heart beat..........can't be beat for the price and he'll do whatever you want done to them.

Steve

I'm hesitant to have my heads sitting around with the bike down for weeks on end? I'm down in Florida but I'm from Maine, Rumford to be exact and my Great grand dad used to own the paper mill there. It stunk bad.

[MaineUltraClassic]

Originally Posted by roofeditor

I'm hesitant to have my heads sitting around with the bike down for weeks on end? I'm down in Florida but I'm from Maine, Rumford to be exact and my Great grand dad used to own the paper mill there. It stunk bad.

Normally Big Boyz has a 1 week turn-around for heads, but you will have to call Bean to make sure. And you can go on the website and use the webcam to watch him do the heads in the portshop.

Steve

[nw_guy4_fun]

I would not even compare R&R heads with Big Boyz. Big boyz heads porting is what it is a very good value and perfect for a 90hp tw37 9.5/1 95" build.
R&R heads will do everything the BBz heads do and a lot more so compression should be higher and cam timing raised up accordingly to take advantage of the increased flow and velocity. The result more torque under the curve and a lot more top end HP. $1400 VS $400 by the time you get the BBz heads CCd. No put down on the BBz stuff just being realistic and showing what I have observed and experienced.

[route66paul]

Buy a set of heads on EBay and have them sent directly to the shop, when you get them, put yours up for sale on eBay. should be <150 for older models and around 200 for newer ones. good luck.

[vafatboy]

Originally Posted by nw_guy4_fun

I would not even compare R&R heads with Big Boyz. Big boyz heads porting is what it is a very good value and perfect for a 90hp tw37 9.5/1 95" build..

The tuner only used the tuning link, no tweak in timing exhaust etc, my bet there is a little more.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1183758083

[nw_guy4_fun]

Originally Posted by vafatboy

The tuner only used the tuning link, no tweak in timing exhaust etc, my bet there is a little more.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/at...1&d=1183758083

So this is 95" with TW37 cams at 9.5 cr and the dyno was 4th gear?
If so I would put this build at the top 10 percentile of the bell curve of similar builds as far as what is typical. I want to be clear again the heads are not bad just are suited to mild builds. As the compression goes up and the cam timing is increased the heads then begin to show their limitations, that again doesn't make them bad, but I suggest being real with what you can expect, if the results surpass, happy days.

[vafatboy]

Originally Posted by nw_guy4_fun

So this is 95" with TW37 cams at 9.5 cr and the dyno was 4th gear?
If so I would put this build at the top 10 percentile of the bell curve of similar builds as far as what is typical. I want to be clear again the heads are not bad just are suited to mild builds. As the compression goes up and the cam timing is increased the heads then begin to show their limitations, that again doesn't make them bad, but I suggest being real with what you can expect, if the results surpass, happy days.

To be clear, 95" 37b 9.8-1 5th gear.