The infamous question...Do I Have To Remap

[HDMD88]

I had this posted on another forum and I think it will be good info here too. So many times I get the question do I have to remap ? Well here is some facts that will help you answer that question your self.

First off every engine is an air pump....if you built two identical motors side by side they would breathe differently taking on their own flow characteristic plus ignition timing would also be different in each motor to optimize the performance. VE in these engines is an indication of Air movement through the motor so if the identical motors had their own flow characteristics the VE would be different. They might put out the same hp and tq but, at a given rpm and throttle position the engines will differ. Now if this is true we can break it down even further, if every engine is an air pump then each cylinder is it's own air pump too....so the flow characteristic (VE) of the front cylinder is going to be different than the (VE) of the rear cylinder. ie the rear cylinder is going to breathe differently from the front. A lot of this comes from the firing order of 315 degrees for the rear and 405 degrees for the front...so the air movement through the same motor differs.
Cams, like pipes will make a big difference in the air movement through the motor too...a cam that comes in late will have better air flow numbers in the higher rpms and throttle positions, like wise a cam that gives more torque and power on the bottom end will have larger VE numbers in the lower rpm area and lower throttle position or vice versa. This air movement from cams and pipes can be seen on the VE tables and their effect on the motor. (Is this making since to you yet...I hope so.) Ant time the motor has something installed like pipes, cams, air filter, displacement and such the VEs increase and they move up or down the rpm and throttle position range. So for a good example; a set of SE pipes are installed...the VE tables are altered by the tuner to fit the flow characteristics of these pipes (we do this through a process of Syncronization which takes up to four to five hours some times).....now the guy wants to put on Rienhart Tru Duals.....do you think the VE is going to be the same of these pipes....absoulotly not. Like cams pipes flow differently so the VE changes again and again with ever change. Now how many times have you seen questions out there like " Do I need to remap just because I installed my new Fat Cats''? If you understand what I just explained, what would your answer be? Yes he does need to remap. Better yet...watch this. If you notice all the down loads (canned maps) on the Race Tuner are for Screamin'Eagle parts....if you had all SE parts but decided to install a V&H Pro Pipe will that down load work? ........NO !!!!!..... Because the Pro Pipe has different flow charcteristics...... So how many times have you heard dealers just installing a down load in bikes that don't have all, or any, SE parts on them and out the door they go? Bottom Line....any time you change the air movement in an engine configuration the ECM needs to know, so a remap is necessary for the bike to have optimum performance.

In my opinion the Race Tuner is by far the best tool to manage the ECM out there if you have the knowledge of the program and how to use it correctly....it doesn't get any better or more complete Gentleman.

Sorry for getting carried away....I'll quit now.
Doc

[trucky911]

Very informative Doc. Thank you. Do you know of any dealers or indys that are capable of tunning a bike in S/E Michigan w/ the race tuner? The problem around here is finding someone who is compident at doing it. Thanks again.

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by trucky911

Very informative Doc. Thank you. Do you know of any dealers or indys that are capable of tunning a bike in S/E Michigan w/ the race tuner? The problem around here is finding someone who is compident at doing it. Thanks again.

Yes I do....American Harley Davidson in Ann Arbor....request Noah

[SNUFFY]

as a shop owner i agree with the post above
the problem is 90 percent of hd riders do not know or care abought opitimum performance
all they care abought is making it louder then there buddys bike so they too can set of car alarms and blast away from bikes nights making more noise the a f16 fighter plane at mach 1

they care abought how much money they can save from not having to dyno tune
so they can by the new peice of billit they have had they eye on

when there buddy says i got this and this with out having to have it tuned and it runs great
( he would not even have a clue how bad its running )

so the next guy says well jimbo down the road did not have to re map
so you dont know what your talking abought

it takes getting there a$$ handed to them in a 50 mph roll on
or a light to light hard pull for them to relize we might have a clue as to making a happy mill

then they still wont spend the dollar

again thats 90 percent of the riders out there
thats leaves 9 percent for those that disagree with the statment
and 1 percent for those that are riding around with a happy tuned bike

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by SNUFFY

as a shop owner i agree with the post above
the problem is 90 percent of hd riders do not know or care abought opitimum performance
all they care abought is making it louder then there buddys bike so they too can set of car alarms and blast away from bikes nights making more noise the a f16 fighter plane at mach 1

they care abought how much money they can save from not having to dyno tune
so they can by the new peice of billit they have had they eye on

when there buddy says i got this and this with out having to have it tuned and it runs great
( he would not even have a clue how bad its running )

so the next guy says well jimbo down the road did not have to re map
so you dont know what your talking abought

it takes getting there a$$ handed to them in a 50 mph roll on
or a light to light hard pull for them to relize we might have a clue as to making a happy mill

then they still wont spend the dollar

again thats 90 percent of the riders out there
thats leaves 9 percent for those that disagree with the statment
and 1 percent for those that are riding around with a happy tuned bike

its our job to educate them how to keep their $15,000.00 investment running good and not burning up over a $400.00 to $500.00 re tune.

[ATTILA]

Originally Posted by HDMD88

Yes I do....American Harley Davidson in Ann Arbor....request Noah

what about Shawn or Steve havent met Noah

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by ATTILA

what about Shawn or Steve havent met Noah

I trained 6 techs there....Noah, in my opinion did the best out of the 6. Shawn didn't want my training and Steve missed a big part of the training.

[ATTILA]

Noah it is then

[trucky911]

Originally Posted by HDMD88

Yes I do....American Harley Davidson in Ann Arbor....request Noah

Thank you Doc............trucky911
Attila, I think Shawn is at Brighten HD now.

[compressor#v]

Sean is teaching at a community college they (American) say. I was at American last week and spoke to Noah and he says he is currently NOT doing any tuning. He didn't elaborate and I didn't push it. I thought I heard that they were going to change the dyno room some, but it looked the same to this untrained eye.

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by compressor#v

Sean is teaching at a community college they (American) say. I was at American last week and spoke to Noah and he says he is currently NOT doing any tuning. He didn't elaborate and I didn't push it. I thought I heard that they were going to change the dyno room some, but it looked the same to this untrained eye.

I'm going to call them and see what is up!!!!

[compressor#v]

Thanks Doc, Noah said it would be Sept. before I could get a tune. The day I was there the dyno room was empty. Of course I wasn't there all day, but if there is alot of demand, I know you'd have it movin and shakin.

[deuce04]

Originally Posted by SNUFFY

as a shop owner i agree with the post above
the problem is 90 percent of hd riders do not know or care abought opitimum performance
all they care abought is making it louder then there buddys bike so they too can set of car alarms and blast away from bikes nights making more noise the a f16 fighter plane at mach 1

they care abought how much money they can save from not having to dyno tune
so they can by the new peice of billit they have had they eye on

when there buddy says i got this and this with out having to have it tuned and it runs great
( he would not even have a clue how bad its running )

so the next guy says well jimbo down the road did not have to re map
so you dont know what your talking abought

it takes getting there a$$ handed to them in a 50 mph roll on
or a light to light hard pull for them to relize we might have a clue as to making a happy mill

then they still wont spend the dollar

again thats 90 percent of the riders out there
thats leaves 9 percent for those that disagree with the statment
and 1 percent for those that are riding around with a happy tuned bike

Very well put..now if I could only find a competent tech that knows the SERT>

[Mohead1]

I am in the same boat as others. I have gone to two dealers here in the Knoxville Tn. area and they "say" "oh yeah....we know how to tune on the dyno" but when you start talking about VE tables or want to discuss issues with the tech who is gonna do the tune, they look at you like you have smoked a fatty or somethin.....I am about to play with it myself, carefully and conservatively of course, unless I find someone close to do this tune work. Frustrating.....I have a 110inch SE Dyna with V&H exhaust with some dam canned tune from the dealer, but it acts lean in the top of the midrange. Hope to find someone.

Mo

[SNUFFY]

again we can try to teach riders abought v e and air flow
but we just talk out are a$$
if they dont understand it them selves MOST (not all ) will never learn
and never never know what it like to ride motorcycle with a trully happy mill

go to the exhaust discussion part of this forum
and read the slip ons no pc post
confirms my post here