The infamous question...Do I Have To Remap

[jonno]

By chance would anybody know a good SERT tuner in the NY area?

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by jonno

By chance would anybody know a good SERT tuner in the NY area?

Get in touch with Hillside Cycles, they have a good tuner in up state NY

[jonno]

Thanks allot bro.

[zeroroadkill]

Originally Posted by Mohead1

I am in the same boat as others. I have gone to two dealers here in the Knoxville Tn. area and they "say" "oh yeah....we know how to tune on the dyno" but when you start talking about VE tables or want to discuss issues with the tech who is gonna do the tune, they look at you like you have smoked a fatty or somethin.....I am about to play with it myself, carefully and conservatively of course, unless I find someone close to do this tune work. Frustrating.....I have a 110inch SE Dyna with V&H exhaust with some dam canned tune from the dealer, but it acts lean in the top of the midrange. Hope to find someone.

Mo

I did the same, I took the last dyno map and tweaked it just a little at a time.
It took several attempts, but I have it at about 90%. Harley runs a zero degree timing map and the same map for each cylinder, so do most of the HD maps for DynoJet Power Commanders prior to the USB model. This is all wrong, as stated before, each cylinder is different and needs to be tuned all by its little self. This is why you need a good tech to do the tuning or take a good map similar to your setup and tweak away.

I retarded the timing on the 80%-100% (WOT) range in the 3k to 6k rpm range by 5 points and this stopped the pinging. I then increased the fuel in the 2k to 5k range. I set the fuel a bit richer on the rear cylinder than the front and just kept changing values a few points at a time until I had a good pull throughout the entire rpm range and throttle position.

I was getting 112'Tq and 84hp from a 95" w/204 cam, SE heads and SE exhaust. I put on the V&H true dual exhaust & mufflers and instantly noticed a boost in performance. With a little playing on the map, I can say I'm doing better than 112/84 now.

I am looking to have it mapped again if I get to the Bay Area someday (Mountain View, Ca.) because you cannot fool a real computer tune.
So I say, go ahead and play, but as mentioned, to get a real good tune, you have to find a good tech with a good dyno!

Good luck with your tweaking and oh yeah, save the old map!!!

zeroroadkill

[encorebilly]

Originally Posted by HDMD88

I had this posted on another forum and I think it will be good info here too. So many times I get the question do I have to remap ? Well here is some facts that will help you answer that question your self.

First off every engine is an air pump....if you built two identical motors side by side they would breathe differently taking on their own flow characteristic plus ignition timing would also be different in each motor to optimize the performance. VE in these engines is an indication of Air movement through the motor so if the identical motors had their own flow characteristics the VE would be different. They might put out the same hp and tq but, at a given rpm and throttle position the engines will differ. Now if this is true we can break it down even further, if every engine is an air pump then each cylinder is it's own air pump too....so the flow characteristic (VE) of the front cylinder is going to be different than the (VE) of the rear cylinder. ie the rear cylinder is going to breathe differently from the front. A lot of this comes from the firing order of 315 degrees for the rear and 405 degrees for the front...so the air movement through the same motor differs.
Cams, like pipes will make a big difference in the air movement through the motor too...a cam that comes in late will have better air flow numbers in the higher rpms and throttle positions, like wise a cam that gives more torque and power on the bottom end will have larger VE numbers in the lower rpm area and lower throttle position or vice versa. This air movement from cams and pipes can be seen on the VE tables and their effect on the motor. (Is this making since to you yet...I hope so.) Ant time the motor has something installed like pipes, cams, air filter, displacement and such the VEs increase and they move up or down the rpm and throttle position range. So for a good example; a set of SE pipes are installed...the VE tables are altered by the tuner to fit the flow characteristics of these pipes (we do this through a process of Syncronization which takes up to four to five hours some times).....now the guy wants to put on Rienhart Tru Duals.....do you think the VE is going to be the same of these pipes....absoulotly not. Like cams pipes flow differently so the VE changes again and again with ever change. Now how many times have you seen questions out there like " Do I need to remap just because I installed my new Fat Cats''? If you understand what I just explained, what would your answer be? Yes he does need to remap. Better yet...watch this. If you notice all the down loads (canned maps) on the Race Tuner are for Screamin'Eagle parts....if you had all SE parts but decided to install a V&H Pro Pipe will that down load work? ........NO !!!!!..... Because the Pro Pipe has different flow charcteristics...... So how many times have you heard dealers just installing a down load in bikes that don't have all, or any, SE parts on them and out the door they go? Bottom Line....any time you change the air movement in an engine configuration the ECM needs to know, so a remap is necessary for the bike to have optimum performance.

In my opinion the Race Tuner is by far the best tool to manage the ECM out there if you have the knowledge of the program and how to use it correctly....it doesn't get any better or more complete Gentleman.

Sorry for getting carried away....I'll quit now.
Doc

\
I wonder if they spend 4 hrs setting up airflow in every new bike that comes out the door???

[DannyXL]

Should I remap moving from an SE paper air filter to a K&N air filter with oil?? Thats all thats being changed, just the filter. Its the same size btw. 05 Night Train with SE paper 29442-99 to a K&N HD-0800.

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by DannyXL

Should I remap moving from an SE paper air filter to a K&N air filter with oil?? Thats all thats being changed, just the filter. Its the same size btw. 05 Night Train with SE paper 29442-99 to a K&N HD-0800.

No need to pay for a new tune for an airfilter change........

[nvsteve]

Hi Doc:
Quick question on retuning.
Touring bikes with stock headers have an obstruction where the rear header
meets the front. I'm not speaking of the intenional one at the top of the rear cylinder. It can bee seen looking up the right side exhaust when the muffler is remove.
Mine "hangs" down at least a 1/2 inch maybe 3/4.
Does it make sense to cut it out and if I do would a retune be necessary.
Stage 1, PC111.
Thank, Steve

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by nvsteve

Hi Doc:
Quick question on retuning.
Touring bikes with stock headers have an obstruction where the rear header
meets the front. I'm not speaking of the intenional one at the top of the rear cylinder. It can bee seen looking up the right side exhaust when the muffler is remove.
Mine "hangs" down at least a 1/2 inch maybe 3/4.
Does it make sense to cut it out and if I do would a retune be necessary.
Stage 1, PC111.
Thank, Steve

Steve I would imagine you will get a little more flow out of the front cylinder but not so much that a tune would have to be done to match it. The gain isn't worth the labor with that system in my opinion....plus that little tab sticking into the pipe could be to stop reversion entering the front cylinder sending the pulse wave up the rear pipe and out the left side pipe....... just a thought.

[hdmarsh77]

Originally Posted by HDMD88

....plus that little tab sticking into the pipe could be to stop reversion entering the front cylinder sending the pulse wave up the rear pipe and out the left side pipe....... just a thought.

Hmmm, interesting. I was planning on removing it from mine this winter but you got me thinkin. I wonder if anyone has ever done any testing on this.

[nvsteve]

Originally Posted by hdmarsh77

Hmmm, interesting. I was planning on removing it from mine this winter but you got me thinkin. I wonder if anyone has ever done any testing on this.

Here's a b4 and after comparison done by Latus Motors and this is on a modified motor. Doesn't look worth the effort to me as the tq is less until about 3700, then you don't gain much. HP gain is about 5 but so what.
I think Doc may be right.

http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com...mid=2070#M2070

[hdmarsh77]

Thanks, Steve. That's quite the torque loss at 2700. One less thing to do this winter.

[ocdmachine]

First of all, I am by no means literate enough to be challenging anyone on EFI issues but had an interesting conversation over breakfast with a HD dealer tech over SERT versus PCIII. It was not one of those, "your method sucks and only my way works" type conversations, actually it was somewhat educational to my untrained brain.

His thoughts on PC was that by continually "tricking" the ECM, I was just asking for problems down the road. The ECM will eventually throw some codes based on input from the PC. He claims the best way is the SERT because it directly changes the parameters. He was cool with the fact I had a PCIII and was happy with the performance enhancements it provides.

Now from a novice's point of view, is this really any different than the Diablo Predator in my F250 Diesel truck? It changes the ECM to run more effecient/more power versus the factory settings. It, like the PC on my Ultra, absolutely provides a noticeable driving/riding difference that I can feel and document via fuel mileage.

I'm happy with the PCIII but if "really" could cause trouble down the road, I might be inclined to go with a SERT. Going to do some engine upgrades in the near future and may or may not add that to the list. Any thoughts from you more experienced riders?

[HDMD88]

Originally Posted by ocdmachine

First of all, I am by no means literate enough to be challenging anyone on EFI issues but had an interesting conversation over breakfast with a HD dealer tech over SERT versus PCIII. It was not one of those, "your method sucks and only my way works" type conversations, actually it was somewhat educational to my untrained brain.

His thoughts on PC was that by continually "tricking" the ECM, I was just asking for problems down the road. The ECM will eventually throw some codes based on input from the PC. He claims the best way is the SERT because it directly changes the parameters. He was cool with the fact I had a PCIII and was happy with the performance enhancements it provides.

Now from a novice's point of view, is this really any different than the Diablo Predator in my F250 Diesel truck? It changes the ECM to run more effecient/more power versus the factory settings. It, like the PC on my Ultra, absolutely provides a noticeable driving/riding difference that I can feel and document via fuel mileage.

I'm happy with the PCIII but if "really" could cause trouble down the road, I might be inclined to go with a SERT. Going to do some engine upgrades in the near future and may or may not add that to the list. Any thoughts from you more experienced riders?

Your dealer is wrong....the ECM puts out a signal to the coil and injectors, the PCIII robs that signal and lets us reprogram it and control the injectors and coil....it does not send a signal to the ECM so it can't hurt the ECM.

[macmce]

hi guys can annyone give me the power difference from a 07 fxstbi 96

with the 103 stage one /se filter and road legal se pipes

thanks in advance

macmce
scotland