05-06 Oil Consumption Fix, Continued .... : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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05-06 Oil Consumption Fix, Continued ....

In a previous post about the 05 oil consumption, I examined the new style oil seals. I compared the -02 version with the -02A version. After noticing the build up of oil in the spring seat, I suggested that drilling a series of holes in the spring seat could eleviate the problem. The holes would not allow the oil to build up and bypass the seal at the guide diameter. I still feel this would be an adequate resolution to the problem. Here is the thread ... http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=63946

At Big Boyz Head Porting we have several solutions implemented and so far have not had an issue, including using the drilled spring seats. Although we only use the updated -02A seals for customer heads, we never stopped looking for a better solution. Recently we located a company that was examining the same oil consumption problem and had an opportunity to compare notes. What they determined to be the problem was the build up of oil in the spring seat, as we had also seen. I had summarized the oil was entering under the spring seat. They had a different opinion. What they found was the oil was entering where the seal and the spring seat met. The solution was bonding the rubber seal to the metal spring seat. This would stop the oil from entering the spring seat and becoming trapped. They also extended the spring seat which seems to give it a more positive location off the guide.

To check the theory of the oil entering between the seat to seal connection, I took a few apart and did a simple visual examination. The first thing I noticed was a coating of oil between the seat and the seal. After I took seal out, there was a significant amount of oil on it. I wiped it off on the paper so you can see it.

In the very near future we will be implementing these seals on all 05-06 heads. We will also have them available for purchase.


Here are the different valve seals




In this picture the red arrow points to the oil in the seat to seal contact area. Note the shine on the rubber were the arrow points compared to the rubber above it. That is the oil, difficult to capture in the picture.




The yellow arrows point to oil on the seal and on the paper where I rolled it so you can see it better.




This is the new seal. The Red line marks the added spring seat metal I mentioned above. The yellow line indicates the bonding area. The blue rubber is bonded the entire distance of the yellow line, inside.

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Old 04-25-2006, 10:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Cool info...

One question, from the original thread it sounds like this is an issue with '05 harley's, but in this thread you mention '06. So has this issue been found on '06 harley's as well?
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 04-25-2006, 10:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrock
Cool info...

One question, from the original thread it sounds like this is an issue with '05 harley's, but in this thread you mention '06. So has this issue been found on '06 harley's as well?
I mention the 06 because I have yet to see a set of 06 heads come in with the updated -02A valve seals. This would indicate a lot of 06's were assembled with the original -02 seals.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I am not very educated when it comes to engines but on my 06 streetglide I had a lot of oil coming out of the aircleaner. I know that a little can be normal from what I am told but I had drops coming out about 1 drop every 1 to 2 seconds. I also seemed to have used a lot of oil. When I checked it after riding for about a thousand miles (before it starting leaking) it was a quart and a half low. It did not leak that heavily for very long so I did not think the low oil was completely due to the leaking from the air cleaner. When I took it in, they said that the oil pump was "scored" and jacked it up. Either way, it was all covered under warranty. Any thoughts from the experienced engine guys here???

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Old 10-11-2006, 07:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springer-
In a previous post about the 05 oil consumption, I examined the new style oil seals. I compared the -02 version with the -02A version. After noticing the build up of oil in the spring seat, I suggested that drilling a series of holes in the spring seat could eleviate the problem. The holes would not allow the oil to build up and bypass the seal at the guide diameter. I still feel this would be an adequate resolution to the problem. Here is the thread ... http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=63946

At Big Boyz Head Porting we have several solutions implemented and so far have not had an issue, including using the drilled spring seats. Although we only use the updated -02A seals for customer heads, we never stopped looking for a better solution. Recently we located a company that was examining the same oil consumption problem and had an opportunity to compare notes. What they determined to be the problem was the build up of oil in the spring seat, as we had also seen. I had summarized the oil was entering under the spring seat. They had a different opinion. What they found was the oil was entering where the seal and the spring seat met. The solution was bonding the rubber seal to the metal spring seat. This would stop the oil from entering the spring seat and becoming trapped. They also extended the spring seat which seems to give it a more positive location off the guide.

To check the theory of the oil entering between the seat to seal connection, I took a few apart and did a simple visual examination. The first thing I noticed was a coating of oil between the seat and the seal. After I took seal out, there was a significant amount of oil on it. I wiped it off on the paper so you can see it.

In the very near future we will be implementing these seals on all 05-06 heads. We will also have them available for purchase.


Here are the different valve seals




In this picture the red arrow points to the oil in the seat to seal contact area. Note the shine on the rubber were the arrow points compared to the rubber above it. That is the oil, difficult to capture in the picture.




The yellow arrows point to oil on the seal and on the paper where I rolled it so you can see it better.




This is the new seal. The Red line marks the added spring seat metal I mentioned above. The yellow line indicates the bonding area. The blue rubber is bonded the entire distance of the yellow line, inside.

Whats the latest news on the blue coloured seals? I am in the dark over here and dizzy from reading. I know my bike is approved for the seal fix, but I have been ridin too much to put in the shop and I want to make sure I get the right seals!!!

Cheers

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Old 10-11-2006, 09:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkeyman
Whats the latest news on the blue coloured seals? I am in the dark over here and dizzy from reading. I know my bike is approved for the seal fix, but I have been ridin too much to put in the shop and I want to make sure I get the right seals!!!

Cheers

Ride On
The Blue seals are the only ones we use now. They are not factory seals so I don't know what a dealer would say about using them. I am sure they will only want to use the orange factory seal.
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Old 10-19-2006, 01:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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WEll I agree Springer we too also only use the blue seal. I just got the last bunch in. I fail to see why they would not. WE do heads for several HD dealers and they ahve asked about the seals as they have been battling the oil issue as well. But seals are not the only issue. In the last year we have come across several sets of heads that are so poorly cast that oil is being sucked from the valve spring seat area into the ex port chamber. I thought no way but after talking to a shop that is porting over 4000 sets of heads a year they said the same thing. With that many heads you are going to see the issue more than say us that is in the 400-500 sets a year.

This one from the dealer had a small hole that would only allow oil to be sucked in the port once hot. You could pressure test the head cold and all was fine but warm the head to 200+ and there you go the pressure test would drop like a stone on the ex port. We welded the area up and all was great, but really the quality is very poor on the 06 and up heads as far as casting goes. The guy that welds the heads hates the mustang logo heads as he tells us they go " snap crackle pop" when he welds them.
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