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S&S 124 for 2007 & UP Twincams

55K views 177 replies 43 participants last post by  CowboyTutt 
#1 ·
Looks like the HD 120R finally got S&S's attention for the new bikes. Bout' time. Finally a serious option at a competitive price point. I'm guessing similar HP, but that B2 head option is very interesting...
Isn't competition great?

The 2007-Up Twin Cam complete T-Series engines are available for both Alpha and Beta applications in black powdercoat only.

Engines are fully assembled up to the intake port face, therefore a customer will need to purchase a stock length intake manifold and air cleaner to complete the installation of the hard parts.

Engines feature chrome rocker boxes, tappet covers and cam cover.

Also available with B2 heads-
Here's how they market the 124 advantages-

Benefits of S&S 124" Engine vs the SE120R
■4 cubes
■EZ Start cams
■Timken Sleeve and Timken Left Main Bearing
■Better Oil Pump - cooler temperatures, 83% more scavenge
■Adjustable Pushrods
■Roller Rocker Arms
■1 year warranty
A engines at 6,295 and B's at 6,695 (B2 heads extra)

Fits:
■Wide Glide
■Super GlideCustom
■Street Bob
■Low Rider
■Super Glide

Touring models include:

■Electra Glide
■Ultra Classic
■Electra Glide Classic
■Electra Glide Standard
■Street Glide
■Road Glide
■Road King
■Road King Classic
■Road King Custom

Softail models include:

■Fat Boy
■Springer Softail
■Night Train
■Springer Classic
■Deuce
■Heritage Softail
■Deluxe
■Standard
■Heritage Classic
 
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#64 ·
A few points guys
No we don't sell this engine UN-assembled, assembled only. but you can order all the parts separately if you choose.

We will weld flywheels but it is not recommended. We have found through our proprietary manufacturing process and testing our wheels are far superior to other wheels on the market. "WELDING IS NOT RECOMMENDED" 8 out of 12 S&S teams achieved world records at Bonneville last season, I think we know what we are doing with flywheels!

Keep your eyes on this engine and head options. Thats all I can say :)
 
#65 ·
"WELDING IS NOT RECOMMENDED" 8 out of 12 S&S teams achieved world records at Bonneville last season, I think we know what we are doing with flywheels!
No doubt-
My 126" S&S Street motor has been running hard for over 5 years now with a NON welded flywheel-NO ISSUES.
BTW, It was great seeing you guys at the Long Beach Show-glad you made the long trip out. We of course supported your products on our bike and in the winners circle as well-
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/v...-motorcycle-show-ultimate-builder-winner.html
 
#74 ·
For fear of my spelling being nailed to the cross , Edmore, Martin, and Ubley Speedway in Oct we were at Edmore "Mid Mich Motorplex" now when Bert Baker was testing his Clutchless new set up for the bike hes building for this year.

I own Thunder Roads Magazine of Michigan i know that will blow our Cowboy friend away from the north sometimes after doing hours of editing i just feel like just typing out how i want to this has pissed off our Educated Friend from the north.

So to answer your questions we are covering on average 20-40 events per summer plus all the winter swap meets we bought the magazine from Joe and Pam Brinn good friends of ours and now have Jody Mohowitsch running it so i can run my main buss a Automotive repair shop in Midland i know that will be hard for our Cowboy friend to belive since i cant spell let alone wrench on Cars and trucks for 31 yrs scary Chit huh...:)
 
#69 ·
I think one thing that needs clarity with this setup is the oil pump i think its not ness a big deal but still it can be misleading and thats even thou Star "Great People" have listed S&S oil pump people should know this engine or at least mine was shipped without but instead a SE pump i love my S&S powered bikes this being my 4th but to look at the engine and see that HD Cam Cover makes for a misleading of sorts honeslty firing the bike and seeing 35psi of oil pressure cold when across the same shop is a 120RX that carrys 70 psi cold it can just cause concerns , we all know oil pressure is not critical to have to see the high numbers but its a principal issue more than anything .

In the world of big horsepower the engine appears to look like a Hot setup with B-2 heads and perhaps the sleeper look is the better way however and no disrepect but if i ask for a apple i dont want a orange When i called Viola it was all explained by a very friendly Tech like always and again i just think everyone who buys these should know what truley is inside those 120 cases.

And last has the plant ran any of these with the B-2 70 mm Thog and if so is there any map dowloads that best suite this engine, Stars other 124 like mine had the 66 and perhaps it doesnt make enough diff on tuning but would be nice to know if there is something out there or if it is all adding in your parts to the Master Tune and get it as close as poss?

The whole reason i did this and most will think iam nuts stuipd or both but last year i got kicked into a outlaw class on a shoot out with my 126 and was forced to run against a Watercooled metric because i didnt have HD cases it cost me 500 bucks because my 126's rubber band couldnt wrap as tight has the metric to me S&S is as if not more American than HD and it pissed me off enough to buy another RG donar and do this build. My other RG with the 120RX won its class because of the cases but i left feeling frustrated and mad this engine is all about redemption.
Fred
OK, I'll bite here. If you don't have enough education behind you to write your responses in simple grammatically correct English, avoiding run-on sentences and using periods, commas and proper punctuation, and correct spelling despite the many spell checks available, and despite the availability of archaic things called "dictionaries" available in every home, your opinions are highly suspect in my book.


-Tutt
 
#71 · (Edited)
Well, I do. It's hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone who wants to discuss high level engine theory but doesn't have enough education to do so. Oh, I forget myself. You live in Canada. Your mileage may vary. YOU may want to contribute to the "dumbing down of America" but since you don't live in my country I would hope we hold to a higher standard. And yeah, I'm the guy who works to see that American kids have a good education.

I think its possible to have a good discussion here, without "dumbing down the standards" so much, and that we should not appear to be uneducated idiots. God forbid, someone should uphold a higher standard.

Your mileage may vary,

-Tutt
 
#73 ·
Theres a place in every fourm were you can choose not to read and my bad english is one. Iam sorry when HD stock rose it was because of Tshirt riders and weekend riders will have to excuse my being a IDIOT.

I really dont care if you think my opinion is suspect, i didnt nibble on the barrel i have no clue now at this point how many of the new 124's S&S has sold at the time i talked to the tech in Viola there wasnt many in fact he had to call down to Lacrosse to see why the engine didnt have a S&S pump he called back and explained . This is a forum a place to learn and share ill just glob everything together so everyone can read from now on .

When the 120R debuted i bit and honeslty i know theres more guys on this site that have scratch built more than a 123-128 hp out of a 5500 dollar build which is the cost of that engine minus all the externals you need add another 2800 for the Rx kit or Tman set up and your at about 9500 dollars US turn key and dyno'ed Hp net with RX set up 149 Rwhp

S&S comes out with a engine to counter this with a head option at the factory to exceed with bolt ons minus exhust 10,500 stated by Stars one install and run to have hit close to 170 Rwhp with the 66mm . I have no reason to doubt Derek or Stars rep, and iam just a stupid ole biker who cant use english but one thing i do know is ill give you this lastest RG with the keys if you can tell me were i can find 21honest hp from a 1,000 dollar bill.

BTW thanks for the welcome i suppose if i wasnt doing this post on a old Pos Flip phone i might take a min to worry about what you want but i would rather just be honest and put it out there what is aval as many guys do here.

I find TV , and most people suspect as well i mean come on our dearly beloved Jesse James tells the world of bikers hes using a proto type 120r engine in a cake contest myself and many others have well over 3-5k miles on 120Rs that hardley makes them proto type but i guess i knew what he meant.

Fred
 
#72 ·
I agree, but not everyone has the writing skills or knowledge. Doesn't mean they are stupid and dont know about engines or bikes.

My pops can barely spell some basic words, but he can tear a car to pieces and completely restore it from the ground up. He is also one hell of an Electrician... Just because an English teacher can't change his own oil doesn't mean hes an idiot either..

Just cause the guy didn't write the perfect sentence doesn't equate to a lesser knowledge of mechanics and bikes.
 
#76 ·
I'd like to make some passes on that mofo!! I have sub 10 second experience on a no bar street bike!! And with that level of performance, I think it should be close!
 
#81 ·
I did the same while it was still in the stand , iam not bothered by this and i have to watch how this comes out because i have been doing buss with Star for awhile and there a stand up group with a history to back it up.

My concern and its only a minor is when they first posted this new setup for the 07 and ups and its still on there website it states S&S oil pump try convincing a S&S Guru and loyal cust like myself that its any more than a Hot Set up with the HD cover people look for your bag of weed or meth... Too me it makes for the Ultimate Sleeper so i plan on having fun..

Iam truly sorry for offending anyone here with how i typed out my repleys, again we all are here to learn from each other not just at this site but many God knows when i built my 53 pan from a frame, tranny, and engine with a title had it not been for these types of fourms i would have made alot of foolish mistakes .

Besides racing , these RGs are meant for a upcoming article in the magazine to compare two like engines from the crate engine family.

We did this same type of article for Bakers Reverse set up on Joes Ultra . If everyone goes back to my first posts on this thread i explained why, i built a scratch bike and used a JIMS131 when they first came out still have the bike but being honest both the 120R and 124 are far more powerful than the 131 are these projects tax write offs for the magazine sure they are but they also help those who are on the edge of what they want in a crate, or scratch built engine ...
 
#84 ·
Yes, thanks for the follow-up S&S.
 
#90 ·
Nothing really will happen now until spring, Stroker helped me with a good base map and it will take some road time and dyno work to get this 124 tuned to run to its max.

Last winter i did the 120RX and again in Michigan it wouldnt be until spring before we could really start dialing it in. Its going for a Dyno session the first Sat in Jan and will try to get some run time and see how well Vtune works.

Since the engine has been fired i have gotton the Pingle Electronic shifter installed and working on the SE shift light on that note my advice would be to stay with the Autometer 2 level light both are made by Auto meter anyway just finding alot of electrical errors in SE's install .

I think its a safe bet to say that the 124 will produce more RWHP with the B2's than the 120 with the Hurricanes but fair is fair and thats what i intend on.

One thing i would suggest is carefully look at what tuner you go with i have always used SE race tuners and software and the TTS is a learning curve for me. I think we all could agree it would be nice to see some real time base maps instead of computer gen ones.

Fred
 
#91 ·
Hey Thumper, please post a copy of your dyno sheet after you get that monster dialed in. I would love to see how it does.

Im building a mild compression 124" for my trike using Reworked Harley heads. Not chasing HP just want the torque. Biggest issue once I get it done is getting a good base TTS map to break it in from. Having a trike is a downside to tuning, but being disabled it the only way I can ride.

Tom
 
#92 ·
Tom
I sure will , i built a 124 Hot set up with a buddy of mine he has in a RG he didnt want to mess with electonics and put a 48mm Mikki on it this past summer and ran a honest 131 RWHP at two diff dyno shoot outs, the carb ran these numbers right out of the box.

I love messing around with the RG's but trust me i also like my Ultra with the 110 and some very mild work its a bike we probley enjoy the most rode from here in Michigan to Sturgis the last two years on it and wouldnt trade that ride quailty for long distance for anything.
 
#93 ·
Yesterday found this project bike on the dyno at my local HD dealer , with alot of Help from Stroker Jim from here a decent base map was made and it would spend 4 hours on the dyno .

I think its important when any of us are spending the money for these engines to know sometimes i hate being a Beta tester poss a alpha , the numbers layed down yesterday were not that impressive for a engine of this type and having the massive B2's on it.

Out of fairness to both companys iam gonna do some research on were they came up with the numbers that were thrown out there, also any poss short comings on our end.

The tuner running the dyno and working the bike is not the norm like many bike shops he owned his own and worked mostly on the high end of tunning but got tired of a market that is unstable and hours that dont always allow for a family so having him yesterday made the exper more assuring to me because of his skill set working the dyno and making adjustments.

The engine sounds great and to hear it running on the dyno would make most with a trained ear belive it was gonna truley lay down some numbers after the fourth Vtune file was loaded . Its winter up here and setting in a dyno room that has decent fans and set still is not always the best set up because heat is still working against you after a 4 plus hour session.

Hoping threw Star the selling dealer and even S&S they can inject some advice but iam a very honest person and although i try to always be optmistic its a little hard right now after yesterday.
Again out of fairness ill post yesterdays results and suggestions from both companys after .

Fred
 
#95 ·
Used both he was making manuel adjustments to the table and i was using the Vtune , Dyno simulate road test bit chilly and snow up here, Corrections were made both ways, this is the first bike i have not used SERT on and honeslty like the TTS setup, again not ness the ideal condtions but it allowed to get some fat numbers adjusted.

Again to be fair i want to talk to Derek and S&S before posting the sheet from yesterday were all human and maybe theres a happy something somewere i do belive i could be wrong this was the first 70mm Thog and this was Stars first TC 124 with B-2's.
 
#96 ·
I can respect and appreciate that. The TTS is a nice tuning device. Both have their strong points. One of the things I wish the TTS had is the ability to see the map that is already in the bike if a customer brings their bike in and want to re tune or tweek the tune thats already in the bike. Something that would be nice for bikes sporting EZ starts too would be good to be able to do a CCP test in situations like this so you know everything is right in that regard. I think S&S claims that if you are below around 90 psi you have a problem but to me, thats not as good as seeing the actual high number. I am running the EZ's in my new build however and I do think they have their place in the world.
 
#99 ·
Merc

Agree should have said the first of the 124's with B2's with the 120 cases, yes it has 640 ES cams. I do belive theres power to be had but theres a missing link somewere to find what its gonna take to stand with the 120RX . This was the reason for building this second 08 Rg to compare both engines and again by paper it should have the ablity to surpass the 120rx.

And i more than agree on using more than one dyno and thats why i said iam gonna ask both companys for some suggestions on were they got at least one of these up at 170rwhp.
 
#100 ·
Thumper aka Fred, thanks for taking the high road through this. Personally, I'm not such a big fan of the B2 heads for street use or these super huge TB's but I hope you get things sorted out. I'd like to hear a real success story here. Thank you very much. -Tutt
 
#104 ·
Well thanks for the kinder words i think honeslty Justin "Beatle" has tuned bikes for 12 years hes back a the HD dealer and not using his equipment isnt something he is use to .

S&S has a Auth tuning center in Monroe E&B cycle might take it down there in the next weeks again agree on more than one dyno.

We shall see in the upcoming weeks.

Fred
 

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#107 ·
It deserves more than a V tune. If that is all you used ? was the stock narrow bands and did v tunes ? You never will get WOT correct.
Your gonna have to do some real sampling with wide bands , to dial that beast in.
Something like this . Then forget about those narrow bands.
I think what you are seeing is the sepst smart tune lets you lock wot open loop into 14.6 Afr for tuning , and gives you ve corrections at wot. ( way too lean to tune that motor at wot) but it can be done.
That's why you got the sespt and your -120rx dialed in.
With the tts it won't sample anything over 80kpa with the v tune function. So it's a guess what wot ve's are.
If your going to play with v tune , you still need some kind of external sampling to do wot.
Hope that helps. ... I was afraid this was going to happen.



 
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