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SE Chain Drive or Gear Drive Cam?

78K views 70 replies 49 participants last post by  Slingshot383 
#1 ·
Screamin' Eagle® Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner Plate Upgrade Kit MSRP $429.95

S&S Cycle 585 Gear Drive Easy Start Cams Complete Kit $795.99

Can we discuss the pros and cons of going either of these two routes?
 
#4 ·
Oh great... I was having enough trouble trying to decide between the SE and a gear drive. Now I have to consider the Andrews. Does the Andrews conversion come with high performance cams? How does this compare to a 585 cam or any other number of cams? I don't want to have to worry about compression releases.
 
#38 ·
@gree: my 95" moves pretty damn good for my little build.
 
#6 ·
"The more I read about gear drives the more I leaned towards the selection that I went with."

Johnny I am glad you like your cams. I did a 95" build last winter. Part of that was a set of Andrews 510g's. They went in without a problem and run great. You do have to watch out for TIR!!!!!!! I had .0015 on my crank. Works for me. The hole kit cost $600.00 with shipping. I never have to think about tensioners again. That's a good thing. ;-)
 
#7 ·
Easy Start Cams
I would stay away from them unless you want to be a gennie pig have not heard of any good builders using them.
 
#8 ·
So do I need to start a new thread asking for opinions on what cam to get?
 
#9 · (Edited)
I went gears years ago. These days, I would go with a good conversion. Andrews is a known manufacturer of quality components, ditto S&S.

Another solid option in that direction is the Herko kit. Check out "Flying W "Performance" and / or Herko. Good guy. Good rep. Lots of happy customers.
 
#10 ·
My two pennnies

I haven't posted anything on this site in a long time, but feel compelled to write a little something at least regarding chain drive vs gear drive cams. My intention is not to offend anyone here, and obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions. Regardless of the type of tensioner used (spring, hydraulic, etc), staying with a chain drive setup almost always eventually results in some form of premature wear. Roller chains would probably have a longer lifespan. The material used for the stock spring loaded tensioners that Harley used on the TC88's between 2002-2006 was terrible. I know quite a few people that have had problems with those tensioners wearing out too early (some in as little as 20k miles or less) while others may get 30k-40k miles out of them. I had a personal friend....who purely by a miracle I believe, didn't trash his motor on a softail standard when we found that the tensioners were all but completely worn thru and almost split in two when he decided to go with a gear drive setup. His bike had 35k miles on it at the time.

I have been running some form of a gear drive cams for years in my '04 Roadking, and they are by far the best design choice out there....regardless of who you go with. Cam bearings last longer, and the cams are MUCH easier to turn making less work for the motor....ie...free horsepower. You can go as high as a 585 Easy Start from S&S without having to use compression releases. I have those in my motor, which is now a custom built 106 Cu Inch Stroker, with mostly S&S internal components, Fueling oil pump, cam plate and lifters, S&S Roller Rockers, Zipper's Throttle Body and intake with Zipper's Stage 3 heads, Vance & Hines 2 into 1, and a Thundermax ECM. This setup is phenominal with huge power gains, and finally, my bike feels like it has the power it was supposed to have from the beginning.

I'm all about saving money, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to my Harley, I would rather invest in good quality parts, knowing that I'll get years of use out of them. It's like everything else out there, you get what you pay for. There is tons of info out there on this subject, so research it a little, and I believe you'll probably come to very similar conclusions, and to those who are still skeptical, I have another friend who's motor just got lunched....34k miles on it..and the tensioners went out while riding. That's going to be a little more expensive to fix now.
 
#15 ·
Which is the better choice? HD would have gear driven cams on all models if they would pass EPA noise restrictions for licensed manufacturing. They don't so chain-driven systems are in place instead. Which is the better choice?
 
#17 ·
Or is it a cost and epa issue,?? Gears for cams are expensive and noiser
 
#18 ·
I have two bikes one with a gear drive and the other has a SE Hybrid cam support plate with the hydraulic tensioners. To tell the truth, once the bike is together and running you'll never tell the difference.

For my 2002 Road King I purchased the SE Hybrid plate because I already had a set of Andrews 99-06 Chain driven cams and with that particular set up, I could get the advantage of the billet plate, the roller chain and the hydraulic tensioners without having to buy new cams.

I also think the advantage of the chain drive with hydraulic tensioners is that you don't have to worry so much about crank runout, as you do with gear drives.

Of the two, I like the SE hydraulic tensioners the best.
 
#30 ·
I have two bikes one with a gear drive and the other has a SE Hybrid cam support plate with the hydraulic tensioners. To tell the truth, once the bike is together and running you'll never tell the difference.
Very true. Running the S&S 510 gears in the GF's Heritage and they are great. I went with the SE kit and Andrew's 26's on my RK and that set up is also working well. Which ever one you decide on, the most important factor is the skill level and craftsmanship of the mechanic.
 
#20 ·
I Had S&S 510 Gear drive cams installed on my 06 Nightrain last fall and so far I am very happy with the results. No noise, a better exhaust note and no worries about those old tensioner shoes. I, like a lot of folks really debated about the gear drive vs. new hydraulic tensioners and chains and I finally just decided to go gear drive. I will definitely post a note if I have any problems.
 
#21 ·
I made the choice of SE hydraulic tensioner conversion and S&S 510. Just in the process of installing now so I'll have to report back. I learned most of the trouble with TC chain tensioners is now past history. The major issue was the excessive force applied by a big "dumb" spring 100% of the time when it wasn't needed. The hydraulics apply less force overall, and increase force proportionally with RPM, right where it's needed. You get the improved oil pump in the bargain. Look at the eBay store for HouseOfHarley: I got it for $378.

The other obvious plus for this conversion - for chronic tinkerers - is that any chain drive cam that would have been a replacement for your stock ones will still fit. That makes a big pool to choose from.
 
#26 · (Edited)
These tensioners came off of my buddys 04 Road King Custom. 33,333 miles....FWIW
 

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#29 ·
That is kinda a loaded question because.
There has been gear drive problems but are the problems caused by a poor install? some yes
To tight and it causes wine and gear damage or worse
To loose and I have heard of people breaking teeth off a gear under load like down shifting
Or slapping gears in without checking runout and you can cause the gears to bind at a point in rotation.

Point is any install of any part can cause problems if not done right
 
#31 ·
I changed to Andrews 26 gear driven cams a year ago and haven't looked back. No noise that I can detect at all.

If you shop around a bit, the difference between the HD updated cam plate and the gear drive setup itself is about $100 (Assuming you buy one of the packages with new cams, gears, bearings and pushrods).

The first step is to check your runout. The results may make your choice for you.
 
#32 ·
I think both gear drive (properly installed) and the new hydraulic upgrade kit are good options. Gear may last longer in the end and cost a little more, but the hydraulics are proving (so far) to have a decent life span. In my situation, I was on the road when my spring tensioners started to go. Stopped at a HD dealership and I was still under warranty. So they offered to give me the hydraulic updgrade kit and adjustable pushrods for the cost of the difference of what thet would get for the warranty claim. I think the whole thing came to $450. So that was a good choice for me, at that time. I had been looking at going with gear drive, but decided to see if I could get them fixed while still under warranty (which is tricky, because you have to 'hear' them failing), but it worked out.
 
#33 ·
Just got my bike back after changing to cam gears, my tensioners were about 60% worn with 28k miles on an '04 fxdi. Had the S&S 510g kit put in by an Indy and the whole operation only cost about $1000. I can't tell any noise difference from the gears over the increased exhaust sound from the V&H Pro Pipe. I didn't expect much more torque from the 510 cams but it is very noticeable.
 
#34 ·
Hi FatBob,
Your post could have been mine...the exact same observations with my bike, except I had 20,000 miles when I went to the S&S 510 Gear drive cams. Hope you get good service on yours...I know I am very happy so far...If you don`t mind, tell me who did your cam install?
 
#39 ·
I just had my tensioners replaced at 40K miles under extended warranty. The outside looked great but the mechanic said the inner tension was about to fail. I asked about upgrading to the newer hydraulic set-up and he recommended I installed new cams at the same time for a total of about $750. I gave it some thought and I just had him replace the tensioners with the original style. The mechanic said the first set lasted 40K and the second set should do the same or better. So for the $50 deductible, I good to go again. My bike is a '04 EGC that may be traded in the future after my truck is payed for.

Pete
 
#40 · (Edited)
06 FLHTCUI 65000 miles 1550
Pulled cover, tensioner shoes 1/3 worn down. Bit the bullet and pulled it apart. Installed new SE Hybrid camplate and oil pump. Pulled the upper end and decarboned the heads. Replaced the valves (just for something to do) and installed .030 cometic headset. Replaced lifters with stock HD and went with the S&S Easy Start 551 Torque Cams.

I'm running my own SERT program on it with Rinehart TD's and SE a/c.

I don't need any more torque power than this thing has right now. It will scream (fully loaded with two up) dangerously quick.

Fuel mileage picked up (haven't nailed down the increase amount yet).

Can't say enough good words for the Easy Start Cams. I bet you a hundred dollars to a doughnut that every Harley Davidson Factory Engineer wishes to hell that they would have thought of this design. I sure wish I would've.
 
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