After the disaster: Engine rebuild options : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

ViennaHog · 10-21-2005, 10:58 AM

Folks:

Some of you may have heard about my catastophic engine failure. Since there is always a silver lining I am putting together a list of parts/mods to build an even stronger, but more reliable engine. After some evaluation I took any kind of stroker option off the table. Current thinking is:

Timken crank bearing case modification by 'Zippers'
Case boring to accept 4" bore cylinders by 'Zippers'
Jugs/flat top pistons 4" bore (100 c.i.) by 'S&S'
flywheel/crank HD stock
Dewey's ProStreet heads from 'parts inventory'
oil pump HD stock
B lifters HD stock
Andrews adjustable pushrods from 'parts inventory'
Dakota kid 42 mm carb from 'parts inventory'
SE adjustable or IST Ignition from 'parts inventory'
SE clutch spring HD
HD easy clutch kit HD (w/o spring)
S&S cam gear drive from 'parts inventory'
V&H ProPipe from 'parts inventory'
Baker DD6 new from 'parts inventory'

All other internal engine parts except balancer system will be replaced with new stock parts.

A few questions remain:
Cam choice
I have a TW 37 G, but I lean towards a TW55G for more lift and duration without going to roller rockers. Is there any reasonable chance to retain the 37G?
If there is a great cam, that gives reasonable low end and good power up to say 6000 rpm, I may reconsider roller rockers. Current head set up accepts 0.600 lift max.

Comp releases
Dewey's heads are milled for 9.8 comp (0.04 decked I guess) with SE flat tops and Cometics 0.03. With the 100" configuration I end up with 10.3 comp.
Would a 0.052 gasket be OK? (squish band). Any sources for a 4" performane head gasket with either thickness?

Since I have some time to think now, I am eagerly awaiting your expert opinions on the outline of the build.

Thanks from Vienna

Ozzie In Arabia · 10-21-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViennaHog

Folks:

Some of you may have heard about my catastophic engine failure. Since there is always a silver lining I am putting together a list of parts/mods to build an even stronger, but more reliable engine. After some evaluation I took any kind of stroker option off the table. Current thinking is:

Timken crank bearing case modification by 'Zippers'
Case boring to accept 4" bore cylinders by 'Zippers'
Jugs/flat top pistons 4" bore (100 c.i.) by 'S&S' - I envy you to go to 4" bore VH....I think it is a good choice
flywheel/crank HD stock
Dewey's ProStreet heads from 'parts inventory'
oil pump HD stock
B lifters HD stock
Andrews adjustable pushrods from 'parts inventory'
Dakota kid 42 mm carb from 'parts inventory'
SE adjustable or IST Ignition from 'parts inventory'
SE clutch spring HD
HD easy clutch kit HD (w/o spring)
S&S cam gear drive from 'parts inventory'
V&H ProPipe from 'parts inventory'
Baker DD6 new from 'parts inventory'

All other internal engine parts except balancer system will be replaced with new stock parts.

A few questions remain:
Cam choice
I have a TW 37 G, but I lean towards a TW55G for more lift and duration without going to roller rockers. Is there any reasonable chance to retain the 37G?
If there is a great cam, that gives reasonable low end and good power up to say 6000 rpm, I may reconsider roller rockers. Current head set up accepts 0.600 lift max.

My choice would be the TW5G for the kind of riding you do............it is going to be my choice down the road in December.

It wont give you the top end like the 55 but will definiteley knock over most cams in the 2000/4500rpm range.

I have run .600 lift cams without roller rockers in EVO`s without any wear related issue, however I dont believe the lift ramps were anywhere near as aggressive as the Woods Cams.

Comp releases
Dewey's heads are milled for 9.8 comp (0.04 decked I guess) with SE flat tops and Cometics 0.03. With the 100" configuration I end up with 10.3 comp.
Would a 0.052 gasket be OK? (squish band). Any sources for a 4" performane head gasket with either thickness?

Bullet, GRock and HDMD88 have always advised that squish should be kept to .025/.030"........you can have the pistons machined down a few thou to adjust your comp ratio.

Since I have some time to think now, I am eagerly awaiting your expert opinions on the outline of the build.

Thanks from Vienna

All the best, Ozzie

ViennaHog · 10-21-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLSTFI-2005

Why don't you just get a 124" S&S engine?

It is a proven combination of parts that were engineered to take the stress and strain of all the extra HP/TQ.

Also it would be way cheaper than buying all those parts, shipping stuff to the states and then paying for return shipping (plus VAT), labor, etc...

Not to mention that there is a 12 or 24 month warranty on the engine - something you don't get from a box full of parts.

There is no B motor AFAIK.

cwo2lt · 10-21-2005, 11:51 AM

Why did you take the stroker option off the table? Or would you rather not answer that in this thread?

atengnr · 10-21-2005, 11:59 AM

Why not go with 4 1/8" or 4.25 bore Axtel or Revolution??

ViennaHog · 10-21-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwo2lt

Why did you take the stroker option off the table? Or would you rather not answer that in this thread?

Sure I do. Excessive piston speed as I ride longer stretches on the 'Autobahn' in Germany, Austria and Italy and 100 mph for an hour or so is nothing unusual coupled with $750 more just for the stroker crank.

Keep 'em coming

ViennaHog · 10-21-2005, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpajewsk

Why not go with 4 1/8" or 4.25 bore Axtel or Revolution??

Scared of the added compression. With 100 c.i. I get close to 10.3 with the current heads (I will keep them) which is by far enough for me.

wyodude · 10-21-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViennaHog

There is no B motor AFAIK.

JIMS 120" race kit comes in a B configuration (JIMS calls it beta).

I'm looking seriously at the alpha kit for my RK.

ViennaHog · 10-21-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyodude

JIMS 120" race kit comes in a B configuration (JIMS calls it beta).

I'm looking seriously at the alpha kit for my RK.

oh boy, now you got me thinking................

what's the damage?

HIPPO · 10-21-2005, 05:34 PM

You need to find out from Dewey re the heads, but with the current plan on a 100" at 10.3 CR, I would use the .030" gaskets and look at something like a S&S585 or TW8.

The TW55 is OK also for heavier loads and lower speeds, not that much difference, but it's there.

HIPPO · 10-21-2005, 05:37 PM

And since the whole idea of the 100" vs the 103" is to twist it higher, the first two cams make more sense.

Seahag · 10-21-2005, 11:31 PM

I'd go with the 107" Axtell sales kit....As a matter of fact, I expect that will be my next incarnation in my bike...in a few years.

This is a quote from their site that I really took to heart:

Over square motor design . The biggest bang for the buck . Proven Dyno Shoot-out winner . Allows for use of bigger valves to achieve better flow in your heads . Retains stock engine height . No added piston speed or crank case pressure caused by stroking. This is our most popular cylinder kit to date. This engine combination is a tremendous overachiever in all fields of riding. For Axtell Sales 107ci kit, you will not have to buy flywheels, which saves you money to put into ported heads for bigger power potential. Out of all of the kits that we could build for our personal bikes, this is the one we use. Combine with Baisley heads for tire-smoking 130 ft/lbs of torque and 130 hp in full street trim. If you have a need for Real World Power in a daily driver, then this is the kit for you. ** The 107ci kit comes complete with Axtell Cylinders, forged pistons, moly-rings, MLS gaskets and a new center stud. Flat-top pistons yield 10.3:1 compression in 85cc combustion chambers.

If you're going to do the case boring anyway, and buy new cyllinders and pistons...why not put the extra 7 cubic inches in their. As I hear it, Nascar engines all use an oversquare design.

Axtell's cylinders also have a great reputation for better ring seal:

Aluminum with cast-in liner: Our customer base demanded us to design a conventional aluminum cylinder but with our attention to ring seal. A few years ago we were contracted to machine some aluminum barrels that used a pressed-in liner. It was quite an eye opener concerning bore distortion. The cylinder needs to be heated up to insert the sleeve and when it cools the sleeve is trapped. Unfortunately the bore is severely distorted when cool and that is the same temperature used for all the machining processes. So the bore will be ok when cold but compromised when the engine heats up and the press fit is released. This discovery told us to cast in the sleeve to eliminate the stresses caused by a press fit. We chose to fully machine our sleeve for uniform wall thicknesses and also to obtain the desired shape for retention. We made our sleeve thickness much thicker than other offering to give it increased rigidity. The body of the casting incorporates thicker cross sections to resist the stresses in a high performance engine. These basic changes give us unparalleled ring seal which translates to more power and excellent oil control. These cylinders produced over 200 horsepower in an AHDRA street-pro engine and have traveled an amazing 208 MPH on a Bonneville effort.

Seahag · 10-21-2005, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViennaHog

Scared of the added compression. With 100 c.i. I get close to 10.3 with the current heads (I will keep them) which is by far enough for me.

I just saw this in response to another suggestion for the Axtell kit. You could go with a set of KB dished pistons to combat the little extra compression the 107 would generate over the 100"...and with certain long duration/overlap cams, you could get away with the higher compression generated by the 107.

I'd go with the dished pistons myself.