S.E. manifold and woods big filter element. : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

rpbrock · 05-22-2005, 01:06 AM

Curious if this is Bull-Sheet or not. I don't always believe everything I read but I thought what the hell, I'll try it. I used a Screaming Eagle HTCC FI manifold which has the D-shaped port hooked into a set of Dewey's heads and a 37G. The reason I did it is because of an story that caught my attention that I read in the July issue of "Iron Works". The story was about how North County Customs (Bassani Pipe Guys) were building 95 inchers similar to what I was building. Similar cam, heads, compression, etc.... but they mentioned in the story that "they used the S.E. HTCC FI Intake and left the D-shape intact instead of modifying it to match the head. The step in the manifold seems to eliminate reversion, and it makes the power come on very early" What do you guys think about it?

One other thing I'm not overly sure about. I wanted a bigger filter than the S.E. so I saw the ones that Woods has on his web site. I talked to him about the filters and he insisted that I needed the biggest mofo he had which is the 325. I put it on and it's really BIG. I'm okay with it as my pegs are very wide because of the stirrups and I ride wide anyway. Do I really need that much filter/airflow to my engine? Or was Bobby just selling me a filter?

Ozzie In Arabia · 05-22-2005, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpbrock

Curious if this is Bull-Sheet or not. I don't always believe everything I read but I thought what the hell, I'll try it. I used a Screaming Eagle HTCC FI manifold which has the D-shaped port hooked into a set of Dewey's heads and a 37G. The reason I did it is because of an story that caught my attention that I read in the July issue of "Iron Works". The story was about how North County Customs (Bassani Pipe Guys) were building 95 inchers similar to what I was building. Similar cam, heads, compression, etc.... but they mentioned in the story that "they used the S.E. HTCC FI Intake and left the D-shape intact instead of modifying it to match the head. The step in the manifold seems to eliminate reversion, and it makes the power come on very early" What do you guys think about it?

One other thing I'm not overly sure about. I wanted a bigger filter than the S.E. so I saw the ones that Woods has on his web site. I talked to him about the filters and he insisted that I needed the biggest mofo he had which is the 325. I put it on and it's really BIG. I'm okay with it as my pegs are very wide because of the stirrups and I ride wide anyway. Do I really need that much filter/airflow to my engine? Or was Bobby just selling me a filter?

I have no personal experience with this but the idea of the step is sound. You may have switched us all onto a pretty good performance enhancement here Rpbrock.

There is quite an amount of detail on here for heads and porting etc, but no one seems to be looking at intakes which do influence performance as much as exhausts do.

All the best, Ozzie

rpbrock · 05-22-2005, 01:42 AM

I wish I had more knowledge and I could tell you guys if it works. All I know is the powerband kicks in a lot faster than I expected? Once the bike is broke in, tuned and dynoed, hopefully the difference will show up in on the dyno graph? I'm really curious about it....

Maybe Grock or Doc will have something to add here?

Seahag · 05-22-2005, 06:55 AM

Sure...way to go. Just when I'm thinking I'm done with my build...you go and throw this little wrench in the works

...If it works, I'd likely jump on board that as well....its just too easy a mod to pass up.

csoday · 05-22-2005, 08:04 AM

The SE filter will work just fine.

GRock · 05-22-2005, 09:38 AM

It is debatable as to the amount of power gain you will get from the manifold set up. It is always desirable to be sure that the intake manifold is not LARGER that the intake port on the heads so that turbulence is not caused from intake charge hitting the rim that would be there on the head intake opening. We have the intake manifold .010 to .030 smaller that the head opening just to be sure this is attained. Going from smaller to larger with air movement (or liquid for that matter) will cause a pressure drop and loss of velocity, but the amount here is so small and the distance from the intake port opening to the intake valve is so short that I can't see it making a big plus or minus either way in that regard. As for eliminating reversion, there is very mild overlap on that cam anyway and reversion on the intake tract side is not an issue for power robbing with the 37. And if there is minimal affect from the intake charge or the reversion issue, then how does this cause the power to come on much earlier that non-HTCC set ups. Especially with port openings like Dewey uses. The power you will get from this bike is going to come from the work of Dewey Jelen who already has figured in the configuration of the floors and openings and general port work to attain the most power from this set up. He is aware of reversion and velocity and all the other factors and has done his magic without the need for what sounds to me like a bit of voodoo on the part of North County. But I'll have to run come comparisons on the dyno to verify.

PS - RPB, you have another thread where you are asking about the 51mm. Are you using that carb on your build?? If you you need to be sure that you are matching up the components where they mate. And if you are using it, it is TOO big for your build.

As for the AC, you will gain nothing (maybe 1 to 3 HP) on the top end with that monster filter from Wood. Especially with that cam.

Advice if always free rpbrock. But how about an update on the man in New Mexico if you wouldn't mind.

rpbrock · 05-22-2005, 10:12 AM

PS - RPB, you have another thread where you are asking about the 51mm. Are you using that carb on your build?? If you you need to be sure that you are matching up the components where they mate. And if you are using it, it is TOO big for your build.

Rock, I'm waiting for it to get a little later in that time zone before I call since I'm sure everyone in that household has had no sleep lately. But I will do my best to get us a update ASAP. I did try yesterday to get an update from 4 corners HD but no one knew anything.

No carb... I was interested in the larger filter that the 51mm uses. I'm using stock fuel injection and plan to stay that way. I did get suckered into the hype with the Woods AC. Dewey told me I needed a little bigger AC but I didn't realize the Woods AC was so freaking big... and ugly. Probably going to be on eBay soon or in my "Box of Parts for Future Usage".

BTW... all the tech stuff about the manifold..... WHOOOOSH.... right over the top of my head. I know Dewey's heads are making the power, I was just wondering if the intake brought the power on an faster like North County claims? If during your findings it turns out to be a bad thing, I have my old intake ready to go back on.

Thanks Grock for the input.

machinist · 05-22-2005, 10:54 AM

I remember back in the 70's that the reversion thing was working through the car community. Wiend made a manifold called the "Exterminator" that warned in the installation instructions against port matching. As I recall, this is on a small block Camaro with a 4.10 that the thing had better bottom end before port matching and way better top end after. But the manifold ports were bigger and we had to epoxy them somewhat too to make the match.

GRock · 05-22-2005, 11:13 AM

To be honest with you, I don't think that the intake is going to have a negative affect on you to any great degree (if any). Both Dewey and I have run so many of these builds on the dyno with so many pipe and compression ratio combos, that we will be able to tell within a couple / three points on the TQ and HP where you are supposed to be and if you have something that is holding you back. BTW, the stock TB may hold you back a few ponies on the top end, but nothing that you will feel in the normal operating range. Just look for that good TQ line.

s&w hd · 03-25-2006, 04:20 PM

I read same article,was impressed with dyno figures. All ready had 95" kit,street port heads,S&S 570G cams,V&H stag. big shots, screaming eagle air cleaner,flat-top pistons,power commander, and dyno at 92.5HP &97.2FT/LBS of torque. I installed a Doherty air cleaner w/ crank case pressure relief valves and a screaming eagle efi intake manifold during the winter. A dyno tune is next to see if I wasted my bucks or not. I also got rid of the stock 7mm wires and put a set of Speed 8mm wires on it.

rpbrock · 03-25-2006, 08:18 PM

Well S&W, I can't really say if it helped or not. But I did it and the bike runs great and makes power pretty fast. At 3500 RPM, I'm already hiting my peak on the TQ curve which is 103 FT. lbs. of TQ. Here's the dyno if you're interested. http://deweyspegs.com/dyno_pages/dyno22.html

I still have to go back and get tuned some more as my A/F and the timing is kinda screwey but I just haven't had the time to get it done. Other than the dyno, I can't report and negatives with using the manifold. Bike runs great. Honestly, I just don't think I have the right tuner yet that can really get me dialed in. The guy I used last time has not responded to my emails so I'm going to try someone different this time that may have a better grip on fuel management with a PCIII. I'm hoping to get a little more power and a better A/F curve this time. Others with my exact build think there is still a little more that can be done. Unfortunatley finding someone that can tune like Grock can in my area is just not possible.

01fxstb · 03-26-2006, 08:12 AM

Rp

On my build I went with Deweys suggestion and picked up the 51mm element from HD. It is longer by like 1/2inch or so. The only problem is it has a different bolt pattern. I just made a template a drilled the correct pattern, and all the holes are covered by Deweys end cover. Even easier now Zippers has the same element with the correct hole pattern, making it a bolt on application. http://www.zippersperformance.com/ca...=588&prod=2155

Or better yet check out the overflow filter from BC gerolamy
http://www.bcheads.com/new.htm

01

rpbrock · 03-26-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01fxstb

Rp

On my build I went with Deweys suggestion and picked up the 51mm element from HD.

I did the same thing... went with the zippers.

**HDWRENCH** · 03-26-2006, 11:05 AM

We are forgetting about "time" you maynot see any gains in a larger ac as far as peak numbers. BUT if we can allow the engine to fill faster you will get into the power range faster. Use of time on a dyno can show you much more than you might think. Same set ups making the same numbers but one gets from 2000-6000 2 seconds faster. That will be the bike that you get to see how it looks from behind. The faster you can get into the power band the better off you are. I have seen bikes make great dyno numbers but after looking at the time they took to make the run not very impressive. These are just air pumps, too much a/c or t/b on a efi bike, way different than a carb.

Rob, I think you will see the bike is faster to rev and you will feel that is will pull harder. Compare time on your old dyno to the new dyno sheet.

rpbrock · 03-26-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDWRENCH

Rob, I think you will see the bike is faster to rev and you will feel that is will pull harder. Compare time on your old dyno to the new dyno sheet.

Hmmmmm??? Damn I wished I knew just 1/4 of what you know so I could figure these V-Twin mysterys out. Screw it, I'm still trying to figure out what color RTV to use.