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Old 02-12-2005, 01:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Proper Pushrod Adjustment?

Ok...I just read something in American Iron that threw me...I understood the directions that came with my screaming eagle pushrods this way:

1. lengthen the pushrod till it comes into contact with lifter...making it snug laterally but able to spin...This I understood to be "Zero Lash".

2. Next, from previous point, turn out (lengthen) 2 and 1/2 full turns to preload lifter.

The directions I just read for S&S adjustable pushrods made it sound like this:

1. Lengthen the pushrod until valve is held open (putting pressure on piston in lifter) until it bleeds down completely and can NOT be turned with fingers after bleed down.

2. Shorten pushrod till valve closes and rod spins.

3. Some builders choose to slacken up (shorten) rod another turn to allow lifters more pump.

I'm redoing cams this week and better do this right...this time around if I hadn't done it right last year. :p

Please set me straight either way
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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R U using the SE pushrods? If so, follow the SE instructions.
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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pushrod adjustments

1.) the instructions you read for S&S are when you use the S&S lifter limiter kit.
2.) dif. pushrods have dif threading. so some will say 2 1/2 turns and some will say 3 1/2 turns. All air to the loose side.

General rule of thumb is the lifter plunger should have .100 travel. I set mine at .080 to .082. Helps to make up for engine expansion when the engine gets hot.
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Old 02-12-2005, 01:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Even the screaming eagle instructions use the term zero lash...actually "zero clearance"...so that was my real question within the question. What actually is this zero lash/zero clearance?...Is it when the lifters have oil and are pumped up? or when they are bled all the way off as in the S&S instructions? After re-reading the SE instruction sheet I'm fairly certain I did it right as long as "zero clearance" means not bled all the way down and no laterall movement, but spins freely.

Goose, Does that mean you recommend that you not use the full 2 1/2 turns out so the lifters can stay pumped up more to resist bleed down?
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Old 02-12-2005, 02:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Check this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahag
Even the screaming eagle instructions use the term zero lash...actually "zero clearance"...so that was my real question within the question. What actually is this zero lash/zero clearance?...Is it when the lifters have oil and are pumped up? or when they are bled all the way off as in the S&S instructions? After re-reading the SE instruction sheet I'm fairly certain I did it right as long as "zero clearance" means not bled all the way down and no laterall movement, but spins freely.

Goose, Does that mean you recommend that you not use the full 2 1/2 turns out so the lifters can stay pumped up more to resist bleed down?
SeaHag,

check HDMDs post, looks that's what you are looking for.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/sh...rod+adjustment
How is the built coming along?

Snow and sleet in Vienna.........

PS talked to Rick from DKC, gave me some good ideas
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link Vienna. I like that method. I'll use the Screaming Eagle instructions then, and check the gap between jam nut to make sure I go .1-.12" preload.

Slow going to start. I've prepped the bike by removing everything in the way. Specialty tools I've rented are to arrive USPS priority mail Monday, Cams are to arrive via UPS Tuesday, and New Pushrods on Wednesday.
My days of the week off are Tues/Wed...so If I have the tools I'll get the cam support plate pulled on Tuesday hopefully...Then I'm bringing the cams and plate into the dealer to do the presswork for me. It looks like it will be a piece of cake though. Especially with the dealer installing the new cams in the support plate and all for me. It should be just a matter of reassembling after that.

I don't get to work on it whenever I want unfortunately, because I don't have my own garage. I store my bike for the winter an hours drive away at my mother in laws. A little inconvenient, but her shop is well outfitted with workbenches, lighting, and HEAT for the winter ...all thanks to the wifes late father. He was a tinkerer and built the shop he always wanted a couple years before he died of cancer...Its a shame I never got to meet him...I hear we'd have gotten along great.

Back onto more positive things...I've also got a new Vance & Hines PRO-PIPE HS coming My father in law (second husband of course) bought one for his FLHT...it sounded soo sweet and looked good even without a pipe on both sides...I decided to drop the idea of the V&H true dual headers. I needed to replace one of my slip-ons anyway...and the combined cost of the pipe and headers was more than the cost of the pro-pipe...so even more power and performance coming my way I can't wait to get this thing back together and get it dynoed...It should be right around that 100/100 mark

Its been unseasonably warm this winter and many bikes have been out recently with temps in the 40's to 50's ...so I'm aching to get this done soon. Hopefully its all done in a few weeks.
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Old 02-12-2005, 06:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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pushrods

I would not really worry about bleed down with the 203. Fairly mild cam. If HD states 2 1/2 thats what I would do. If they sound noisey then tighten one flat at a time. A flat is one side of adjustable nut. So if the nut has six flat sides, one flat side is a flat.

With high lift cams, I like to completely collapse the lifter until you can not rotate the pushrod. I then back it off 80 thousands using feeler gauges.

With a 203 cam I would just follow what HD states and abjust as needed.

A lot of info on this in Jims Web page.
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoose
I would not really worry about bleed down with the 203. Fairly mild cam. If HD states 2 1/2 thats what I would do. If they sound noisey then tighten one flat at a time. A flat is one side of adjustable nut. So if the nut has six flat sides, one flat side is a flat.

With high lift cams, I like to completely collapse the lifter until you can not rotate the pushrod. I then back it off 80 thousands using feeler gauges.

With a 203 cam I would just follow what HD states and abjust as needed.

A lot of info on this in Jims Web page.

Sorry I didn't clarify this Goose. The whole reason for this project is to get rid of the SE203's and their chain tensioners. I'M INSTALLING ANDREWS TW-55G GEAR DRIVE CAMS WITH .550" LIFT. All the other parts in my signature line,except exhaust, are staying. Do you still feel the same way about that pushrod adjustment now? I consider .550 lift to be on the low end of high lift cams.
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Old 02-13-2005, 02:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Cool

Now once you have gone though with the correct install and bleed down sequence, run the bike for say 50 miles or so come back home and while the motor is still hot, check each rod once more --- you must be able to just turn the rod with your fingers any more than this and you are losing valve travel, and not every lifter behaves the way it is supposed to.

I go to the effort and do 1 more additional check at around 200 miles just to satisfy myself that the rods are adjusted correctly.

All the best, Ozzie
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Old 02-13-2005, 10:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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pushrods

From a starting point I do. Your HD dealer will install per HD directions then ride the bike and adjust as needed. (if they are a good dealer) With the higher lift cam you can start turn tighter then the normal 2 turns HD recommends. Just make sure the push rods are set properly in the lifter cup and the roller rocker cup. The HD adjustable pushrods are really fat and can and do hit the pushrod tubes causing some noise. So take a little extra time there. Also, I would make sure you put in a Baisley Spring in the cam plate. Will save you some grief later. Trust me on that one. The spring will help keep the lifters pumped up for the higher lift cam.

I have a 650 lift cam. Battled the old clicking noise for months. Even adjusted he Pushrods 10 thousand tighter still got the clicking. Read about the Baisley spring on this forum. Installed the spring clicking noise gone rods back to the 80 thousands I like.

Good luck. Baisley's phone number (503)289-1251
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Old 02-13-2005, 12:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoose
From a starting point I do. Your HD dealer will install per HD directions then ride the bike and adjust as needed. (if they are a good dealer) With the higher lift cam you can start turn tighter then the normal 2 turns HD recommends. Just make sure the push rods are set properly in the lifter cup and the roller rocker cup. The HD adjustable pushrods are really fat and can and do hit the pushrod tubes causing some noise. So take a little extra time there. Also, I would make sure you put in a Baisley Spring in the cam plate. Will save you some grief later. Trust me on that one. The spring will help keep the lifters pumped up for the higher lift cam.

I have a 650 lift cam. Battled the old clicking noise for months. Even adjusted he Pushrods 10 thousand tighter still got the clicking. Read about the Baisley spring on this forum. Installed the spring clicking noise gone rods back to the 80 thousands I like.

Good luck. Baisley's phone number (503)289-1251

Hello KGoose, I understand about the spring improving flow based on posts by Grock and HDMD88 but I have been around bikes a long time and that klicking sound you are talking about is generally caused by a loose fitting cam drive gear.
Not trying to say your wrong just this has always been the case in my experience.

Tappets can take quite a long time to bleed down and really do need to be checked a number of times to ensure they have bled down properly.

All the best, Ozzie
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Last edited by Ozzie In Arabia; 02-13-2005 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 02-13-2005, 01:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks Goose (and everyone else)...I'd already planned for the baisley oil spring...in fact, thats the one component that came in first. So I'll start out with 3 turns of travel or .120" which ever comes first. Then recheck after some miles.
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:28 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Pushrods turns

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoose View Post
I would not really worry about bleed down with the 203. Fairly mild cam. If HD states 2 1/2 thats what I would do. If they sound noisey then tighten one flat at a time. A flat is one side of adjustable nut. So if the nut has six flat sides, one flat side is a flat.

With high lift cams, I like to completely collapse the lifter until you can not rotate the pushrod. I then back it off 80 thousands using feeler gauges.

With a 203 cam I would just follow what HD states and abjust as needed.

A lot of info on this in Jims Web page.
You can't always go by what the pushrod instructions tell you on how many turns if you,ve got a hydrosolid tappet, as I do, you only turn a 24 thread pushrod 1.2 turns out.
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddysdaddy View Post
You can't always go by what the pushrod instructions tell you on how many turns if you,ve got a hydrosolid tappet, as I do, you only turn a 24 thread pushrod 1.2 turns out.
Reason being, the Hydro Solid Lifter has .100 less travel than a stock lifter, there is a shoulder that the piston bottoms out on making it a solid during a bleed down situation. These are to be used with VERY high valve spring loads or VERY high rpm running. If your using them with a street build, with cams .590 or less and the valve spring presures below 190lbs you waisted $500.00 in my opinion.
Plus they are noisy
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Lifters

On OEM lifters, or any without the limiters, we go .140"-.150" into the lifter, regardless of anything else, as once the engine comes to temp, and grows, there is still plenty of pre-load on the lifter, in order to maintain correct valve adjustment.
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