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Old 01-07-2013, 08:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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88cu cam change

Good Morning from East Texas.....I have been lurking here for years an have learned alot from you guys...awesome info here....so I now have a technical question...kinda involved so I will apologize up front for its length...

I have a 2005 Electra Glide...nothing fancy but a great solid bike..It has 56,313 miles on it... !It has a commander v programer,stage 1 air filter assemble an some exhaust changes....last year I checked the cam tenioners an found them to be worn but still enough to ride one more summer..I'm a 4 to 5 thousand a year rider...work gets in the way alot...so here comes the over all question...alot of the time I ride 2 up...loaded...I needed some more lower end grunt...so I found a used set of SE203 cams after reading on here how under rated they are...along with that I am going to replace the cam tenioners,lifters,adjustable push rods an install a set of roller tip rockers(1.675)...the cams appear to be low an mid range cams...1500-4500 I'm guessing...I also was going to do the 3:42 drive change...ok..heres the question...would retarding the cam a couple degrees possible raise the RPM range of the cam 2000 to maybe 5000 maybe...I considered just going a couple teeth larger on the rear drive but the speedo being off just bugs me....has anyone done this??

Thanks for any help!

Last edited by Txtravelman; 01-07-2013 at 08:14 AM. Reason: forgot a couple things..
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Welcome

I'm glad you jumped on board. I don't have any experience with the 203 cams, on my '02 Ultra I went with Andrews 21's and S&S gear drive. I don't have to worry now about any tensioners, the torque is great, and the engine runs cooler. The rest of my setup is very much the same as yours: PCIII, Big Sucker, Rush slip-on's.
With regards to retarding the cams, the bike doesn't fall off the cam higher up the RPM range, so I see no need.
Unless the budget is really tight, I wouldn't bother with a used cam. I hope this was helpful to you. Ride safe, sincerely: Shovelmike.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I wouldn't fool with the cam timing trying to make a cam that wasn't ground for my application work. Get the right cam for what you want to do.

If you're staying 88 and stock compression the 21 is a good choice.

You can find info on the gear change by using the search function of this site. Aftermarket speedo sensors are available to correct your speedo readout.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txtravelman View Post
a lot of the time I ride 2 up...loaded...I needed some more lower end grunt...so I found a used set of SE203 cams after reading on here how under rated they are...along with that I am going to replace the cam tenioners,lifters,adjustable push rods an install a set of roller tip rockers(1.675)...the cams appear to be low an mid range cams...1500-4500 I'm guessing...I also was going to do the 3:42 drive change...ok..heres the question...would retarding the cam a couple degrees possible raise the RPM range of the cam 2000 to maybe 5000 maybe...I considered just going a couple teeth larger on the rear drive but the speedo being off just bugs me....has anyone done this?? Thanks for any help!
Welcome from a fellow Texan! I will throw out a couple of things for you to consider.

If you replace the cam tensioners and don't plan on the SE Hybrid cam plate/pump/hydro tensioner setup; replace the OEM tensioners with the CYCO tensioners which will last longer and will not fail without warning. The CYCO tensioner will also cost about half the cost of the OEM tensioner.

Forget the roller tipped rockers; a waste of money. A set of S&S, Jims or Crane rollers will cost almost as much as a BigBoyz street port job which will make much more difference in performance. There is no benefit from rollers unless cam lift exceeds .600" and they are noiser than the OEM lifters.

I am not sure why you would want to raise the effective RPM range and move the torque curve to the right for a heavy touring model that is ridden two up and loaded? That situation calls for torque off idle peaking around 3500-4000 rpms as it won't see much duty in the higher RPM ranges. What am I missing? The SE203 will definitely wake things up a bit but the Andrews 21's would be a better choice for the riding situation you describe. The 21 intake closes at 30* ABDC compared to the 203 intake close of 36* ABDC; in other words, the 21 is "advanced" 6* compared to the 203.

I think you are referring to the 3.37 final drive conversion?? Installing a 24T engine sprocket and a 37 tooth cluth basket. A much better way to spend the money than on a set of roller rockers. Also much easier than installing a new trans pulley which would require a belt change. However, if you did change the trans pulley, recalibrating the speedo is not a problem; there are several plugnplay recalibrators. A used 24/37 setup is not as easy to find as it once was but if you look around you can probably find one in good condition for $300 or so.

A set of 21 cams and 24/37 gearing will transform your bike and ride experience. If you could only do one thing, the 24/37 modification will make more difference than cams.

EDIT: I forgot to mention how important a good dyno tune will be should you install cams.

Good luck!

Last edited by djl; 01-07-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I like the Idea of big Boyz head work to include decking to a 9.7 or so with the 31 or 26.
Changing to the 3.37 gearing on an Electra glide in east Texas, I'd say hold off on the gearing, ride the bike then make that decision.
70-80 mph, 5 speed, 3.37 gearing may be a bit much.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Excuse me 21 or 26
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaff View Post
I like the Idea of big Boyz head work to include decking to a 9.7 or so with the 31 or 26. Changing to the 3.37 gearing on an Electra glide in east Texas, I'd say hold off on the gearing, ride the bike then make that decision. 70-80 mph, 5 speed, 3.37 gearing may be a bit much.
The trade off for 3.37 final drive is a lot more torque multiplication in all gears which, on a touring model riddent two up and loaded, should not be an issue. 70-80 mph will require another 200 rpms; not a big deal considering the trade off for pulling power.

Another option would be the Twist Gear which converts the first four gears to a close ratio four speed and multiplies torque in the first four gears by 10% while holding the 3.15 final drive ratio in top gear.

Andrews 21 for a touring bike; 26 for a softail that doesn't see two up and loaded duty. A set of "street" ported heads set up for 9.6-9.8 would be right for either cam.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks guys..great stuff...I already have all the stuff described...I have read alot about how the SE203's are so under rated...a ton of bottom end torque...an they we CHEAP...so for the first step up...here we go....I wish this year I could do the 95 kit with heads an all but I have another hobby..I drag race also..funds are being split for this project an freshening up the car for a season an the maintenance on the bike for off weekend fun....

Djl...I was able to find a new set of tenioners for half the price...someone started a project an then went a different direction...so I snagged them...rockers the same way....I have very little in any of the stuff....225.00 so far.... as far as the cam degree change ..it was because of the gear change...all the tone of bottom end torque along with lower gears is kinda redundant...thought if it was a possibility to move the curve up a smidgen with what I had would be great...but it looks like I will just install as is...
I have read all the stuff on the gear change an that looks like the most exciting thing I could do But I Have to do the cam chain stuff...its just time an I don't feel comfortable riding any further with the wear on the chain tenioners..also its tire change time along with checking the swing arm bushings....this thing is almost as needy an my wife....but WAY more fun!...
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Nothing wrong with those 203 cams, get your heads fixed up at Bigboyz as Bean has a really nice port setup for the 05 heads. They differ in that they have the 7mm valves and beehive springs like the 06 up heads but still have the older style small exhaust port, only year like this.
I still have to mention that going bigbore with the SE 1550 pistons will still be the cheapest power you can add, also consider that you will need to get a proper tune to realize the potential of any of the mods you do.
At your mileage will want to replace the inner cam bearings and lifters while in the cam chest.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have an 02 electra glide,except it's a 95"and I ride alot of the time 2 up loaded down.I run a woods tw6 with a 4* advanced gear and I also changed my gearing to 3.37.Wow!!!! The gear change was a BIG DEAL.Never need to down shift.Only 200 more rpm,not that big of a deal.Also,went with SE 1.7 rocker arms,went from 102 tq to 112tq, just by installing the rocker arms.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hello Bob,
I have a stock 05' springer with a thunderjet kit, 203 cams, V&H straitshot exhaust and SE ignition module. I just had the hydraulic chain tensioner kit installed. I have some spare jugs(stock)and a set of JE Pistons to make my 88" a 95". I will need to have the cylinders honed to accept the pistons. I'm looking at some headwork, but don't want to get too crazy here as I think I have the makings of a good setup. Thoughts?

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Old 01-09-2013, 10:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Stick with the SE 203's. They will give you exactly what you are looking for in a cam set up for 88 or 95 either way.




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Old 01-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Afternoon .....well it turns out I have got a set of V-twin manufacturing cam tenioners...any one ever ran them...they have the same spring rate as the old ones...but the shoe is a d...ifferential material ...its denser..took my knife an cut on it an the old one...the new one is way harder to slice on...i hate i have thisbit it only has to last till next winter....5-6 thousand miles..think it will make it?
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txtravelman View Post
Afternoon .....well it turns out I have got a set of V-twin manufacturing cam tenioners...any one ever ran them...they have the same spring rate as the old ones...but the shoe is a d...ifferential material ...its denser..took my knife an cut on it an the old one...the new one is way harder to slice on...i hate i have thisbit it only has to last till next winter....5-6 thousand miles..think it will make it?
maybe they have a weaker spring rate and they will go 50,000 miles?
its crazy how some go 50,000-90,000 and some cant make 30,000
it really is a crap shoot. polish your chains and try them.
the 203's and a good tune .will make you forget about the 337 gears. IMO
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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For sure go 95" the classifieds o. Here will get u jugs and pistons for 300 or less..... Best upgrade for your money.


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