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Old 12-18-2012, 11:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Opinions on a 113 build?

I bought this bike from a dealer. I am the second owner. The previous owner did the build. Just curious what some of the opinions are on the cam choice and what some of the experts out there think about the build. What would you have done different?

It is a 113" motor with a Jims SE stroker crank, SE CNC heads (not the MVA style), 4.06" cylinders, 10.5 compression pistons, roller rocker arms, adjustable pushrods, S&S 585 gear drive cams, Mikuni 45mm carb. It has SE II exhaust. I was also told custom head pipes. It has SE adjustable MAP ignition. The clutch has a Barnett pressure plate. It has 6 springs and you can adjust the pressure by installing a diffrent combination of springs. I believe the clutch discs are stock. I had it put on the dyno by the dealer before I bought it. They did two runs. The top HP was 103.31 and the top TQ was 137.63. The dyno sheet stops at about 4800 rpms. The TQ climbs very steeply from about 2400 rpms and starts to level off at about 3000 rpms and stays strong with a slight incline from there until the 4800 mark where the dyno was stopped. The HP looks like a diagonal line from 2400 to the 4800 mark where the dyno was stopped. It was still climbing. I didn't get any run data with the dyno. I plan to take it somewhere and have it done again so I can get the run data. I also think I want to have the tune checked. The bike didn't come with the controller for the SE adjustable MAP ignition but I just picked one up on ebay. So? opinions? Thoughts? Anything I should check out or look into? Anything you would change? I think I am getting a little clutch slipping. I talked to a tech guy at barnett and he says it's putting out too much for the pressure plate. He doesn't think it'll hold even if I got thier add a disc kit in kevlar or carbon fiber. He recommeded thier new low profile lock up pressure plate or a scorpion clutch. I like the idea of the lock up pressure plate so I don't have to pull the whole clutch assembly. What would you suggest? One thing that has me curious. I see the numbers on other builds and the HP and TQ numbers are usually closer together. Usually a little more HP than TQ too. I read the 585 cam is a cam for HP in the higher rpm range. If the dyno had been taken to higher rpms do you think that would have brought my HP up more in line with the TQ?
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Valparaiso, Indiana

2000 FXDX
113 Cu in.
10.5:1
SE HTCC CNC ported heads w/
Manual Compression Releases
Mikuni HSR45 Carb
S&S 585G cams
SE adjustable MAP ignition
fatcat w/ BB baffle
Barnett pressure plate
116hp/127tq
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well Torque and HP are always equal at 5252 RPM. Because Horsepower=(Torque x RPM)/5252 so your torque probably would have dropped off and your HP would have kept climbing. Only way to truly tell is to dyno it all the way to the rev limiter!
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have a 113" in a bagger= heavy bike. Barnett with carbon fiber discs and stock steel plates with a VPC holds fine. Have similar hp/tq numbers as yours.
The 585 in a light bike such as yours and a 113".....be a BadMF
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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So...is the 585 cam a good choice for this bike and build?
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Doug Thompson
dougtattoo.com
Valparaiso, Indiana

2000 FXDX
113 Cu in.
10.5:1
SE HTCC CNC ported heads w/
Manual Compression Releases
Mikuni HSR45 Carb
S&S 585G cams
SE adjustable MAP ignition
fatcat w/ BB baffle
Barnett pressure plate
116hp/127tq
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The more inches you have, the milder the 585s will be. For my 95"s it comes on the cam about 3200-3300 and is still building HP when it hits the limiter at 6200. If you want to spend much time past there, better find out if your pistons are cast or forged.

A couple of things I noticed after changing to this from Andrews 37G cams was it took more throttle at low speeds to get the bike moving around town and once it comes on the cam, it is really noticable.

I think this is a good general purpose cam, not the tops for HP or TQ, but respectable for both. If you want one more than the other, there are better cams for either. Mine is pretty mild mannered, doesn't have any bad habits as far as starting, running, or heat. If you're looking for something more after riding it for a while, shouldn't be to hard to go there since you have most of the pieces in place.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
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FXDRYDR is reading this now saying WTF is this? FXDRYDR is reading this now saying WTF is this?
describes my 585/98" build.

Depending on your riding style you might want something bigger, or you might leave it as-is. IMO you need to get it into a competent shop and make sure it's in tune, check your CCP then see what it does and go from there.

The 585s will give better mid-range in a 113 than in a 95/98 and might give you all you want, esp. if yours is a heavier bike. Riding style should drive selection.

If you want to travel some, you'll want to stay away from high CCP because of mediocre gas in a lot of areas. If you want a bar hopper and don't mind a little drama once in a while, bump the CCP and think about a bigger cam, maybe a little head work depending on cam, and possibly another exhaust.

RE exhaust - I'm not sure how well the SEIIs work and I'm not familiar with the head pipes you mentioned. There again, a knowledgeable builder / tuner can help you pick a recipe of parts that will deliver what you're looking for.

All that said - I think the package you describe is a good one. MVA heads flow well and 585s should provide a nicely-mannered, strong-running motor. Assuming compression is not bumped too high, trips should be no problem and it should rip pretty well when you twist it. The 113, 4 3/8 stroke is a good balance of size, performance and reliability. Assuming it was built well and all is fine - I think you did well and will likely be happy.

Too lazy to see where Valparaiso is, but there are a number of good builder / tuners in the MI/OH/IN area and they're on this forum. You might want to click around, do some reading, make a few phone calls, see who makes the most sense to you then go see them.

As for slippage, that will be clear on the dyno sheet and you have a lot of options there too. Again, I'd see what the tuner/builder thinks. I ran an SE spring with the stock clutch in my 98 and pounded on it pretty well with no problems.

When I went to 117, I originally had an extra disk E-1 with heavy spring and it slipped. Switched to a Bandit Sportsman and all is well. Others here are running Rivera, Scorpion, and various combinations w/ w/o VPC. All will work. Many paths to glory. See what the tuner / builder likes and uses.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I bet it goes 120 125 hp the way it is, if it was pulled on out .
Does Gary stroud do any tuning? He is right there in town.
Might be worth a visit to his shop. He knows how to go fast!
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This is a correct statement about the 585's, we sometimes run a 585 in a low compression 124, makes a great torque combo, you may want to use something with a little more lift and duration. The 625 might be a good choice for the larger displacement. All depends on what you are trying to accomplish. High torque lower RPM (585) or Higher HP and Higher RPM.(625)


Quote:
Originally Posted by FXDRYDR View Post
describes my 585/98" build.

Depending on your riding style you might want something bigger, or you might leave it as-is. IMO you need to get it into a competent shop and make sure it's in tune, check your CCP then see what it does and go from there.

The 585s will give better mid-range in a 113 than in a 95/98 and might give you all you want, esp. if yours is a heavier bike. Riding style should drive selection.

If you want to travel some, you'll want to stay away from high CCP because of mediocre gas in a lot of areas. If you want a bar hopper and don't mind a little drama once in a while, bump the CCP and think about a bigger cam, maybe a little head work depending on cam, and possibly another exhaust.

RE exhaust - I'm not sure how well the SEIIs work and I'm not familiar with the head pipes you mentioned. There again, a knowledgeable builder / tuner can help you pick a recipe of parts that will deliver what you're looking for.

All that said - I think the package you describe is a good one. MVA heads flow well and 585s should provide a nicely-mannered, strong-running motor. Assuming compression is not bumped too high, trips should be no problem and it should rip pretty well when you twist it. The 113, 4 3/8 stroke is a good balance of size, performance and reliability. Assuming it was built well and all is fine - I think you did well and will likely be happy.

Too lazy to see where Valparaiso is, but there are a number of good builder / tuners in the MI/OH/IN area and they're on this forum. You might want to click around, do some reading, make a few phone calls, see who makes the most sense to you then go see them.

As for slippage, that will be clear on the dyno sheet and you have a lot of options there too. Again, I'd see what the tuner/builder thinks. I ran an SE spring with the stock clutch in my 98 and pounded on it pretty well with no problems.

When I went to 117, I originally had an extra disk E-1 with heavy spring and it slipped. Switched to a Bandit Sportsman and all is well. Others here are running Rivera, Scorpion, and various combinations w/ w/o VPC. All will work. Many paths to glory. See what the tuner / builder likes and uses.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Yes. Gary Stroud DEFFENATELY knows how to go fast. I was in there a couple days ago. When I get it put on the dyno I'm going there. He charges 70 to do a few dyno runs. I didn't ask about tuning but I would think they do that too. I figure his shop is going to know a lot more about performance bikes than the local harley dealer. It's cold here in indiana. I probably won't get it back out and take it to gary to be put on the dyno until early spring. I don't know though. I'm itching to have it tested so I may load it in a buddy's truck and take it sooner. It sounds like the 585 is what I want then. I want my hp and tq more low end and mid range vs high end.
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Doug Thompson
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Valparaiso, Indiana

2000 FXDX
113 Cu in.
10.5:1
SE HTCC CNC ported heads w/
Manual Compression Releases
Mikuni HSR45 Carb
S&S 585G cams
SE adjustable MAP ignition
fatcat w/ BB baffle
Barnett pressure plate
116hp/127tq
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