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Old 11-23-2012, 12:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Adjusting S&S lifters w/limiters

This is my first time adjusting pushrods. When I bought the bike the cams and adjustable
pushrods were already in the bike 2005 flht. I'm pretty sure they are S&S lifters and pushrods.
They do not look like HD stock lifters and look identical to another set of S&S lifters I have.
I adjusted the PR (32tpi) per the S&S instructions. The oil in the Lifter never bled down as per instructions
this would (could) mean that they are Lifters with limiters in them. So this is where
the question is. The instructions say to collapse the pushrod till you can spin the PR allowing
the valve to fully seat then one more turn PR will remain sloppy till lifters pump back up.
After I did this,my lifters seem to expand taking the play out and the PR is tight agin.
Is there a small window that you have to adjust the PR on lifters that have the limiters.
I thought that the lifter was supposed to be partially collapsed and that oil pressure kept
the lifter solid enough to open the valve when the motor was running.
Seems that the lifter plunger has come back up to the retaining clip I'm guessing its
the spring in the lifter.
Thanks for reading and Happy Thanksgiving
Russ
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Instructions for adjusting S&S lifters, both standanrd and with travel limiters.

http://www.sscycle.com/feature/featureview.php?s_id=38
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thank for posting that link. I had watched that video, but never saw the links at the end. Found exactly what I needed ( least I think so) Followed the method and felt very comfortable with it and was able to start the bike this afternoon. Going for a short ride tomorrow and see how it feels.
Thanks again Russ.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have S&S lifters w travel limiters & always have a hard time adjusting them. IME they take FOREVER to bleed down, like 30 or so minutes, not the 10 or 15 the instructions say. The instructions say to go 2 full turns past zero lash, and if they're noisy a half to a full turn less may quiet them down. At least that's how I remember the instructions. I have always gone with a little less preload in an attempt to quiet the valvetrain, which it does somewhat, but still results in an extremely noisy valvetrain.

I also disremember what the thread count is on my pushrods, but I think it's 32 tpi as well.

I almost always wind up doing it twice to get it right!

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Old 11-25-2012, 12:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hey there NE Confederate
I went 20 flats (6 flats was 1 turn I think) after about 30 min backed off 2 flats one took2 1/2 and was able to turn the PRs with fingers then from that point backed off 6 flats
(1 turn). Seems that at different rpms the valve train is more noise than at other other times. Don't have a lot of experience with this and not much of any thing to compare it to. How many miles you got on your lifters and how often do you adjust them.
Russ
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have about 40,000 miles on them and do not adjust them unless I've been in there for something -- like a cam change, which I've done 3 times in those 40k. They have recently gotten quite a bit noisier so I am going to replace the lifters with Gatermans, leaving the current cams in there. The S&S lifters have always been noisy, plus my inner cam gears (gear drive conversion) are at the outer clearance limit (.002") so I'm gonna install an oversize inner cam gear. Hopefully the valvetrain will quiet down!

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Old 11-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Theoretically, once set properly, the pushrods should not require adjustment at all with hydraulic lifters.

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Old 11-27-2012, 01:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input. I'm still trying to under stand what it is about these lifters which makes them noisy. They are still hydraulic just with less travel for plunger I think. I was talking with someone today and he was saying that cams that change the ramp profile can increase valve train noise. I notice that the noise changes w/ rpm and engine load. You brought up the mention of gear drive for the cams. If the run out exceeds mfg specs what happens / or is the result of using gears out of those specs.
Thanks Russ
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:20 AM   #9 (permalink)
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What oil are you using in your engine? We have found many multigrade synthetics to add to problems. Do you have a thermometer dip stick or a heat gun to see how hot the oil is getting?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Not disregarding Randy's input and questions; he's a pro, I am a backyard hack... But to answer your questions, the way I understand this: the hydraulic plunger in a hydraulic tappet still has some travel in operation. This is what allows it to maintain "zero lash" under varying conditions (cylinders, etc, growing with heat, other factors causing changes in clearance). The noise results from the plunger contacting the limiter during lifter operation. That travel limiter makes the hydraulic tappet a "semi solid" tappet. And please, if I'm wrong about this, please correct me. But that's my understanding of the S&S travel limiters.

As for the gear drive and pinion shaft runout, S&S specifies some tight clearances for those gears: .0005" to .0015" lash, IIRC. If pinion runout is not zero, this is an impossible target. My pinion runout was .0025" when I installed the gear drive. This resulted in loose tolerance at one point & tight tolerance 180° from the loosest point in the rotation of the pinion. I had to use an undersize pinion gear to get what I thought was tolerable clearance & was still sweating it because I still had a tight spot. But I now have over 40,000 miles on those gears with no problems, no failures, and no unusual wear on the cam drive gears (I've had them out several times for various cam swaps & used the same gears each time).

Tight gears whine & break things: themselves and/or whatever they are stressing. Loose gears slap, make clattering noises & wear prematurely because of the slapping. Just right and they make a little noise, especially when cold, but otherwise last a long, long time.

Hope this answers your questions.

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Old 12-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Push Rod Adjustment

1.
  1. Bring Cam to Base circle for the tappets you wish to adjust.
  2. a. You can do this by rotating the motor till you have dual movement of the pushrods for the other cylinder.
  3. b. One should go up the other should go down, either way at the same time. The cylinder that you’re adjusting, the tappets should be on base circle of the cam, lowest point in the tappet block for the tappets.
  4. 2. Adjust the push rods
  5. a. Bring pushrods to Zero lash, no up and down movement, tight against rocker arm, and tight against tappet/lifter.
  6. b. Mark the push rod with a marker or paint stick.
  7. c. Extend the push rod (4) four full turns or 24 flats (if using S&S Push Rods, S&S push rods have a 32 Threads per inch)
  8. d. Allow the tappet/lifter to bleed down 20/30 minutes, longer is better.
  9. e. If after 20/30 minutes you can spin the push rod with your fingers you do not have limited travel tappets (HL2T kit).
  10. f. If you do not have HL2T or Travel limited tappets Lock the push rod down, Repeat process for the other cylinder and push rods, you are now done adjusting.
  11. g. If you do have HL2T or Travel limited tappets move on to the next step.
  12. 3. If you cannot spin the push rod, you have S&S Limited Travel tappets (HL2T kit).
  13. a. From this point you want to shorten the push rod. While shortening you will feel drag on the push rod, this is the valve spring tension.
  14. b. While shortening, you will feel the valve spring release the pressure on the push rod; at this point you should notice it being easier to spin the push rod with your wrench.
  15. c. From this point you want to shorten one full turn, 6 flats. At this point you should be able to spin with your fingers.
  16. d. Lock down the push rod and repeat for the rear cylinder.
  17. Do not try to make short cuts in this process. Proper bleeding down of the tappets is critical for healthy running motors. Damage to motor will happen not following these instructions.

PUSHROD REFERENCE
Threads Per Inch Distance Per Turn Distance Per Flat Adjustment for S&S Tappets (w/o) HL2T)
24 0.0417 0.0069 3 Turns or 18 Flats
28 0.0357 0.0059 3.5 Turns or 21 Flats
32 (S&S) 0.0313 0.0052 4 Turns or 24 Flats
36 0.0275 0.0045 4.5 Turns or 27 Flats
40 0.025 0.0042 5 Turns or 30 Flats
52 0.0192 0.0032 6.5 Turns or 39 Flats
*For reference only, use the instructions that came with your tappets!


MANUFACTURER POPULAR PUSHROD THREADS PER INCH
JIMS® Pro-lite 24 No.s 2380, 2400
Slim Jims 32 No.s 2404, 2369
Andrews 28
Andrews 32
Crane 28 New Time Savers
Crane 24 Old Time Savers
Crane 32
H.D. ® 32
S&S ® 32
Screamin Eagle 32
Rivera 40 Taper Lite
Rev Tech 36
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Sorry for the long delay , I got that flu thing in December sick for four weeks out of work two and well I never looked back or forgot. Came across this post I started and just wanted to thank KofK N.E. & S&S for the replies.

Redline Synthetic. Have no idea about the runout on this bike, I can however hear the gear drive kinda sounds like a soft whirring.
Have used your instructions thans it seems better.
Russ
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