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Old 11-01-2012, 08:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Mother wants to know Dino or Syn?
Looking for 117 pistons and jugs

who is running a 20 deg reverse dome(pros/cons)? I'm shooting for 11.5cr with the Hurricane heads.
opinions and experiences please.
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Hyperformance 124ci. 11.5cr CP pistons Triple XXX S&S'G' Green filter
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hey Mother, you might want to PM Totenkoph. He and Otto seem to have a lot of experience with reverse dome pistons. -Tutt
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yo Mother,
I have those pistons. No problems at all. But, Dan B. had to cut stock heads to the bone to get mine to 11.1.
I know nothing about the hcanes, but you should research how much it will take to get the head to 11.5 with those pistons. Axtell offers custom pistons that can be cut to suit. Dan actually wanted to go with some of their new market pistons(2 years ago) on my build, but there was a mis-que between Dan, Hoban and me on the balancing of my crank, so I was stuck with the 20revs.(Hoban balanced my crank with the 20rev. and should have balanced to a Dan specified weight). Mostly my fault, too many things changing and I didn't tie up the loose ends.

Really had to work the throttle body and push rod fit to accommodate the stock milled from the heads to get the compression.

Have fun!
Laser
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02 FLSTCI 117, Darkhorsed, Baisley Pro-Street Heads & corrected geo. roller rockers, Axtell kit 20 deg. rev. dome pistons 11.5:1, HPI 55/58mm MaxFlow tb, Tman TR-662-2 & 3 stage pump, Boarzilla, Barnett Scorpion clutch, Jag 10 row oil cooler, tuned w/ Twin Scan II+/WEGO IIID

10 Ultra Limited 103, Andrews 54 cam, SEAC mod breather, Bigboyz ported heads @10.2 comp, Jackpot 2-1-2 header and Dyno tuned muffs, TTS, tuned w/ Twin Scan II+/WEGO IIID
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks guys!! Andy you rock I knew you would know who to ask.
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Hyperformance 124ci. 11.5cr CP pistons Triple XXX S&S'G' Green filter
Wood lifters & rocker supports
R&R bottom end DT oil pump. S&S 640G cams
Torque Inc. 110 heads
DaytonaTwinTec ignition
Baker KKK/4+1 pan
RB Racing 2" 2into1Blackhole
Smith Bros. pushrods
Antigravity
HUGE amount of help from Torque Inc.
153hp 149tq
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well, not so sure of my rockin' abilities but while I can't spell worth Chit I can read and I appreciate your ability to think outside the box! I think Tote would be a good guy to ask but he hasn't been around much lately!

I find myself wondering if true hemi heads with singh grooves for better turbulence might be another good option???

-Tutt
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2009 Dyna Street Bob with Ohlins/Race Tech Suspension
107 CI, SE 263 E Cams, Burley Heads, 3 way coated CP Pistons + Stuff
124HP/120TQ DynoJet Corrected SAE

Last edited by CowboyTutt; 11-02-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Andy, we are a lot alike...I read everything i can to learn. The heads are a done deal, the cams..I have both feuling 630's and S&S 640G's...Tman will be future option! pistons and chamber will have to be figured out real soon so I can get a piston weight to order the R&R wheels....
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Hyperformance 124ci. 11.5cr CP pistons Triple XXX S&S'G' Green filter
Wood lifters & rocker supports
R&R bottom end DT oil pump. S&S 640G cams
Torque Inc. 110 heads
DaytonaTwinTec ignition
Baker KKK/4+1 pan
RB Racing 2" 2into1Blackhole
Smith Bros. pushrods
Antigravity
HUGE amount of help from Torque Inc.
153hp 149tq
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I know, we are much alike. Just pick the cam first and design the heads after words would be my first recommendation. As to cam pick, the Fueling cams sound a little better to me at present rather than the S&S 640 advanced. I look forward to learning from your hard earned dollars though!! Bring it on!!! :-) -Tutt
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2009 Dyna Street Bob with Ohlins/Race Tech Suspension
107 CI, SE 263 E Cams, Burley Heads, 3 way coated CP Pistons + Stuff
124HP/120TQ DynoJet Corrected SAE
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Andy, I have been bouncing ideas and theories off different people and it's looking like i should go 124?? gotta weigh it out! reliability issue with the short skirt/piston speed of a 124? What about extended rides and heat between the 117 and 124? I have dual 6 row jagg oil coolers and a Baker +1 pan.
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Hyperformance 124ci. 11.5cr CP pistons Triple XXX S&S'G' Green filter
Wood lifters & rocker supports
R&R bottom end DT oil pump. S&S 640G cams
Torque Inc. 110 heads
DaytonaTwinTec ignition
Baker KKK/4+1 pan
RB Racing 2" 2into1Blackhole
Smith Bros. pushrods
Antigravity
HUGE amount of help from Torque Inc.
153hp 149tq

Last edited by Mother; 11-02-2012 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother View Post
Andy, we are a lot alike...I read everything i can to learn. The heads are a done deal, the cams..I have both feuling 630's and S&S 640G's...Tman will be future option! pistons and chamber will have to be figured out real soon so I can get a piston weight to order the R&R wheels....
Call Axtell if you want the scoop on the 20 deg perimeter dome pistons. Your going to have to cut the heads to match the pistons , then figure compression.
Why R&R for a crank?
Forget about advanceing the 640 ,run it straight up.
You won't need any of the band aid cams with those heads .
640 or 675 S&S . They deserve it .
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:06 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hi Guys I would call Randy @ HYPERFORMANCE In Des Moines Iowa I was in his shop on Sat. 11/2 he has shelves & cases of new pistons and can answer just about any BIG BLOCK VTwin ??????!

Guys you have to actuley see his motors in person! R&R Heads Randys custom made "IRON" Cylinders he mills out of big pieces of ductile iron ! Now Randy can machine any head /clynder / engine case combos like evo heads on a shovel head bottoms...or whatever combo you want ! Plus he does outside oil lines from the heads back down into the cases !
I stopped by to say hi and he had a Tiny 131 cu in bad ass motor on the table....but then I saw the Monster 160 cu in Twin Carbed thats going over seas...WOW ! 80 cu in from each cylinder! now thats torque ! He uses 1 to 2 compression releses on each head so save the battery and starters Randys motors run about 30% cooler too !

I have seen the 205 & 220 & 260 cu in motors he has built...so a 117 set of pistons and cylinders should be no problem to get or make !
He also has had 3 120 R H-D Motors come in his shop in the last few weeks and he told me what a POS these motors are so stay n away from them there all hand gernades waiting for you guys to waste $5000 with no warrenty then blow them up and spend another $5000 to fix them...so buy a good motor to begin with....
if we could only buy a new bike without a power train then put a Baker 6 or 7 speed in with one of Randys "big block" motors in and never worry about 90% of the bs problems all you guys have to go through with HD Motors trying to get them to 80 HP What a Joke...$30,000 + for a 60 hp smog pump that should be over 100 hp rolling off the showroom floor!

Last edited by 59panhead; 11-03-2012 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59panhead View Post
Hi Guys I would call Randy @ HYPERFORMANCE In Des Moines Iowa I was in his shop on Sat. 11/2 he has shelves & cases of new pistons and can answer just about any BIG BLOCK VTwin ??????!

Guys you have to actuley see his motors in person! R&R Heads Randys custom made "IRON" Cylinders he mills out of big pieces of ductile iron ! Now Randy can machine any head /clynder / engine case combos like evo heads on a shovel head bottoms...or whatever combo you want ! Plus he does outside oil lines from the heads back down into the cases !
I stopped by to say hi and he had a Tiny 131 cu in bad ass motor on the table....but then I saw the Monster 160 cu in Twin Carbed thats going over seas...WOW ! 80 cu in from each cylinder! now thats torque ! He uses 1 to 2 compression releses on each head so save the battery and starters Randys motors run about 30% cooler too !

I have seen the 205 & 220 & 260 cu in motors he has built...so a 117 set of pistons and cylinders should be no problem to get or make !
He also has had 3 120 R H-D Motors come in his shop in the last few weeks and he told me what a POS these motors are so stay n away from them there all hand gernades waiting for you guys to waste $5000 with no warrenty then blow them up and spend another $5000 to fix them...so buy a good motor to begin with....
if we could only buy a new bike without a power train then put a Baker 6 or 7 speed in with one of Randys "big block" motors in and never worry about 90% of the bs problems all you guys have to go through with HD Motors trying to get them to 80 HP What a Joke...$30,000 + for a 60 hp smog pump that should be over 100 hp rolling off the showroom floor!
Wow and not a word about RB racing pipes
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CowboyTutt View Post
Well, not so sure of my rockin' abilities but while I can't spell worth Chit I can read and I appreciate your ability to think outside the box! I think Tote would be a good guy to ask but he hasn't been around much lately!

I find myself wondering if true hemi heads with singh grooves for better turbulence might be another good option???

-Tutt
Outside the box?
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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that is too far outside the box...even for me!


I am running a 2" primary RB!
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Hyperformance 124ci. 11.5cr CP pistons Triple XXX S&S'G' Green filter
Wood lifters & rocker supports
R&R bottom end DT oil pump. S&S 640G cams
Torque Inc. 110 heads
DaytonaTwinTec ignition
Baker KKK/4+1 pan
RB Racing 2" 2into1Blackhole
Smith Bros. pushrods
Antigravity
HUGE amount of help from Torque Inc.
153hp 149tq
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Speaking of outside the box, we will be offering an automatic transmission soon. It's not going to be a cheesy solenoid shift piece of crap transmission. I think this piece will greatly impact the HD world! Parts are being machined for it now and it will be a torque converter style transmission, probably a 4 speed and probably going to fit inside the stock housing. Should be pretty sweet for those that would like to have an auto setup. We hope to use one in a bagger maybe by middle of next year but it is still in prototype stage right now.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
reliability issue with the short skirt/piston speed of a 124?
OK my friend, I wanted to do some reading up on piston speed to be sure I was given accurate information. It does appear that 5000 fpm piston speed is the ragged edge of street performance and will require super premium parts.

The MoCo was able to go to a 4 3/8ths stroke because they upgraded the crank assembly from the TC 88. They added small end tapered con rods with lighter/better pistons with smaller/lighter wrist pins, all done to reduce reciprocating weight, piston acceleration forces and allow for higher sustained piston speeds.

If you use a piston speed calculator you will see that the TC 96 4.385 stroke is doing 4731 mean fpm at 6500 rpm.

Even increasing the stroke to 4.5 inches increases mean piston speed to 4855.5 fpm at the same rpm. You can reduce the redline to 6300 rpm and piston speed remains almost the same.

The 4 5/8th stroke further increases piston speed. As an aside, I really like the 4.25 stroke of the Star Racing 126 myself.

So maybe one way to look at your situation is how much rpm do you want with those heads and cams? It seems like they are intended for high rpm running?

And we both know your riding style.....grin.

Randy at Hyperperformance is certainly probably the best expert on the subject on how to make a large CI engine.

As to engine cooling, you might want to consider two ten rows since you already have the plumbing for dual coolers.

The other heat issue that no one seems to address other than Buell is the heat of the HD heads themselves. Air cooled Buells use fans and ducts to cool the heads, not just oil coolers. JIMS has a new fan/horn combination that might help cool the heads quite a bit actually as it moves the stagnant hot air between the cylinders.

And I think that R&R heads run cooler too. Just food for thought since your crank is coming from them.

So much to think about.

Anyhow, I look forward to what you decide to do!

-Tutt
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2009 Dyna Street Bob with Ohlins/Race Tech Suspension
107 CI, SE 263 E Cams, Burley Heads, 3 way coated CP Pistons + Stuff
124HP/120TQ DynoJet Corrected SAE
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