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Old 09-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Built motor: Oil consumption

Hey guys..... what's a reasonable expectation for oil consumption?

I had my current motor built for touring, looking for plenty of torque to handle most hills, 2-up, fully loaded, 6th gear cruise set at 80mph (roughly 3 grand on the tach), pump gas & tons of reliability for cross-country cruising.

On this year's trip to Sturgis it burned 2 qts in 3600 miles. It's a pain looking for good oil on the road, carrying 1/2 used quarts, trying to keep the bike in a safe range (not too full, not too low).

I paid $7,000 for this near bullet-proof motor, and disappointed with the oil use. I'm not unhappy with the performance (although I expected a bit more for the price), just didn't expect to be dealing with oil consumption.

Thoughts?

Thanks!!


.
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'09 FLTRI, Vivid Black, ABS.
Pri: Amsoil Syn ATF. Trans: Redline Heavy ShockProof. Crank: Redline 20W50
123tq/115hp


'05 FLTRI, totaled 10/17/08.
105tq/107hp

'00 FLHRCI, sold.

Proverbs 3:5-6
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Living under God's grace. Forgiven, not perfect.

Last edited by PR3VS56; 09-28-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Built my 120, using S.E. cyl. and pistons. heads done by Don Dorfman, running 151 hp 146 tq. just got back from 4300 mile trip and 1000 miles before leaving on trip. oil use was just under 1 quart. I am fine with that. this motor went on the dyno with no miles on it. only did three heat cycles.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There are some pretty good shops in your area, or up north.
It will need to be diagnosed piece by piece forensically. Nothing we can do over the net.
Consider Jim at Metal Dragon. High Quality shop.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'd say its using too much. I did Sturgis, 3k miles door to door, and didn't use enough to even notice on the stick. I had HOURS on the super slab from Laramie WY to Cedar City UT one day at 80mph too. I don't hardly use any between oil changes though. About 35k on the build now.

It's either going past the rings or down the guides. How many miles on the build and how was it broke in? What's the fit on the pistons and how much gap on the rings. Are you seeing blow-by at the rocker vent? Did you romp the $hit out of it for the whole trip? Check the rings and valves by doing a bleed down with compressed air...that right there will tell a lot.

Just some ideas.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Take it back to the builder make them do it right. Good luck
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCA58 View Post
Built my 120, using S.E. cyl. and pistons. heads done by Don Dorfman, running 151 hp 146 tq.
Wow, awsome numbers for a pump gas, daily driver 120". Close to
G2 126" numbers with your build-Blows away any 120R without the 12-1 pistons and heads combo.
Could you post up the dyno sheet? Would love to see when and where the power hits on this beast and the build specs.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwmorris View Post
Wow, awsome numbers for a pump gas, daily driver 120". Close to
G2 126" numbers with your build-Blows away any 120R without the 12-1 pistons and heads combo.
Could you post up the dyno sheet? Would love to see when and where the power hits on this beast and the build specs.
My 98" burns a quart every 3000 miles and plugs are clean. Have to agree with morris,those are some pretty high #'s. Not trying to cause problems but building a 120" myself and would like to know the parts used in this monster.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plongson View Post
I'd say its using too much. I did Sturgis, 3k miles door to door, and didn't use enough to even notice on the stick. I had HOURS on the super slab from Laramie WY to Cedar City UT one day at 80mph too. I don't hardly use any between oil changes though. About 35k on the build now.

It's either going past the rings or down the guides. How many miles on the build and how was it broke in? What's the fit on the pistons and how much gap on the rings. Are you seeing blow-by at the rocker vent? Did you romp the $hit out of it for the whole trip? Check the rings and valves by doing a bleed down with compressed air...that right there will tell a lot.

Just some ideas.
That's what I thought, and the experience I was looking for. This is my 3rd Harley, and I've NEVER added oil between changes.

Builder has the bike now, and giving me static about the repair. He quoted Harley's 1 qt/1,000 miles on factory motors as support for why I should accept it as is.

No I didn't hot-rod it, my gf was on the back the whole way. It wasn't even that hot this year. 95% of the time it was cruise control.

Builder did a compression ck 185psi both cyls, and a leakdown 8% front 4% rear. He said the leakdown indicates rings are good. That means guides, right?

I don't know the piston or ring gap, but I shouldn't have to. For the price I paid for this motor I shouldn't be using this volume of oil. 9500 miles on the build (about 5,500 when I left for Sturgis). It's been using oil since new.

Breakin was first with SYN3 @ the builder, then SYN3 again after the dyno (before leaving his shop). First change after that was at 1,500 with Shell Rotella 10/40 dyno oil (builder's recommendation). I changed to Redline 20/50 synthetic next because it was a little noisy and using some oil. I thought the Redline would be better than Rotella. The builder was blaming Redline for the problems until I pointed out that he broke it in with SYN3.

The bike is at his shop, and I'm standing firm on the need to fix this problem. Just wanted to poll the VTF to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable.

.

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'09 FLTRI, Vivid Black, ABS.
Pri: Amsoil Syn ATF. Trans: Redline Heavy ShockProof. Crank: Redline 20W50
123tq/115hp


'05 FLTRI, totaled 10/17/08.
105tq/107hp

'00 FLHRCI, sold.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Fruit of the Spirit


Living under God's grace. Forgiven, not perfect.

Last edited by PR3VS56; 09-28-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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He said the leakdown indicates rings are good

Nope, it just means they are sealing not necessarily controlling the oil.
Just had a 113 come by me here that had same issue. Second ring was shot. Cylinders were perfect. Compression good. Get a view of the intake port and a side view of the pistons and that will start to tell a story.

Johns 120 is a kit 120r from HD factory bottom end and reworked 110 heads, 662-2 cams, corrected geometry, 10.8:1 compression, MM injection with a HPI/Delphi injector TB, Dragula 3.05" baffle.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Johns 120 is a kit 120r from HD factory bottom end and reworked 110 heads, 662-2 cams, corrected geometry, 10.8:1 compression, MM injection with a HPI/Delphi injector TB, Dragula 3.05" baffle

Great build and tune
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The builder is Geoffrey Gaites at Cycle Doctor in Costa Mesa. He has NO interest in correcting the problem, thinks I should be happy with it as is, and in fact blames Redline 20/50 V-Twin Synthetic for the problem. He was emphatic on the ills of not using dino oil until I pointed out that he dyno'd and broke it in with Syn-3 (saw on my invoice). He then said that was a mistake, that they shouldn't have used Syn-3!

The bike is now at an undisclosed location for repair. Stay tuned, and thank you all for your comments!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Motorcycle.com Free App
__________________
'09 FLTRI, Vivid Black, ABS.
Pri: Amsoil Syn ATF. Trans: Redline Heavy ShockProof. Crank: Redline 20W50
123tq/115hp


'05 FLTRI, totaled 10/17/08.
105tq/107hp

'00 FLHRCI, sold.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Fruit of the Spirit


Living under God's grace. Forgiven, not perfect.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Oil consumption??? What 's that?

Ok a little oil burning "may" take place in some re-builds if not done correctly but....there should be no oil consumption to any noticable degree if the build has been done correctly....period.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PR3VS56 View Post
The builder is Geoffrey Gaites at Cycle Doctor in Costa Mesa. He has NO interest in correcting the problem, thinks I should be happy with it as is, and in fact blames Redline 20/50 V-Twin Synthetic for the problem. He was emphatic on the ills of not using dino oil until I pointed out that he dyno'd and broke it in with Syn-3 (saw on my invoice). He then said that was a mistake, that they shouldn't have used Syn-3!

The bike is now at an undisclosed location for repair. Stay tuned, and thank you all for your comments!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Motorcycle.com Free App
DAMN! PR3V Geoffery had (at least a couple of years ago) a reputation of being one fine tuner/builder and stand up guy. He is a bit unusual and seems rather un-flexable, for lack of a better term. But he did a fabulous job tuning my Don Dorfman build and has a great little shop.

I drove door to door about 750 miles to have him do my tune, I've also been recommending him to others. Sure hope this is one big misunderstanding...for both of you!!

BEST OF LUCK!
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plongson View Post
DAMN! PR3V Geoffery had (at least a couple of years ago) a reputation of being one fine tuner/builder and stand up guy. He is a bit unusual and seems rather un-flexable, for lack of a better term. But he did a fabulous job tuning my Don Dorfman build and has a great little shop.

I drove door to door about 750 miles to have him do my tune, I've also been recommending him to others. Sure hope this is one big misunderstanding...for both of you!!

BEST OF LUCK!
I agree with you on all counts. He tuned my last bike and did a fantastic job, which is why I brought this one to him. I'm bummed about the oil use, and really disappointed in Geoff to say the least. Like you say, he is inflexible (in his own words, "doesn't play well with others"). Deep down inside, I KNOW he knows what's wrong, and just doesn't want to face it. It's bs. Carrying quarts of oil in my saddle bags isn't my idea of a good build.

It's losing power too. 117tq, now 113tq (and that's after he re-tweaked the tune to be the best he could make it)


.
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'09 FLTRI, Vivid Black, ABS.
Pri: Amsoil Syn ATF. Trans: Redline Heavy ShockProof. Crank: Redline 20W50
123tq/115hp


'05 FLTRI, totaled 10/17/08.
105tq/107hp

'00 FLHRCI, sold.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Fruit of the Spirit


Living under God's grace. Forgiven, not perfect.

Last edited by PR3VS56; 10-12-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Cycle Doctor (Geoffrey Gaites) wants me to perform a 3,000 mile "sealed" test to measure/prove oil use.

Anyone ever heard of, or know how to do this???

Thanks!!

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'09 FLTRI, Vivid Black, ABS.
Pri: Amsoil Syn ATF. Trans: Redline Heavy ShockProof. Crank: Redline 20W50
123tq/115hp


'05 FLTRI, totaled 10/17/08.
105tq/107hp

'00 FLHRCI, sold.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Fruit of the Spirit


Living under God's grace. Forgiven, not perfect.
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