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Old 06-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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New 120 build, help w map

Just finished my new build and need help with finding a break in map and the best break in procedure. Build details are a 120 CI using se cases, se forged 4 5/8 crank, darkhorse welded and pluged, timken conv., se 4.060 cyls, se 10.5 to 1 pistons, t-man stage 2 cvo 110 heads and tr625 cams, s&s roller rockers and lifters, se adj pushrods, speeds billet rocker supports, thayer 3 stage pump, billet cam plate, hpi 55mm tb, se 5.3 injectors, speeds hi flow ac, and rinehart true duals. I also have the se pro super tuner with the software and cables. Wanting to get a map to break it in myself and put around 500 miles on before taking bike in for dyno tuning. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Wanting to get a map to break it in myself and put around 500 miles on before taking bike in for dyno tuning. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
take it and get it tuned now. no better place to seat rings, than on a dyno. this way it is sampled adjusted and made safe. riding 500 miles with a map for another combo that you have no idea if it is safe .just isn't a good idea
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:52 PM   #3 (permalink)
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take it and get it tuned now. no better place to seat rings, than on a dyno. this way it is sampled adjusted and made safe. riding 500 miles with a map for another combo that you have no idea if it is safe .just isn't a good idea
Ditto.
Plus, I'll add: Change oil at 50 or even 20 miles initially. Then don't over extend on the next two changes or so. The black filters are cheaper for this phase.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for that info. I just have a lot of time and money invested here and wanted to make sure it gets the proper break in. I have heard in the past that to soon on the dyno will shorten the engine life considerbly. Some say don't get above 3500 rpm for the first several hundred miles.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fmj1550 View Post
Thanks for that info. I just have a lot of time and money invested here and wanted to make sure it gets the proper break in. I have heard in the past that to soon on the dyno will shorten the engine life considerbly. Some say don't get above 3500 rpm for the first several hundred miles.
Yup...thats what S&S says in there break in procedure on there web site.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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FMJ... all I can say is to PLEASE listen to two of the very top tuners going... break the bike in on a dyno. Your last post was no more than unknowing BS. If you have no dyno close by, then by all means do the S&S method, but if you DO have a GOOD dyno close by, the best bet is to break in on the dyno. A dyno break in monitored the fuel from the very beginning... if the bike is too lean for those 500 miles, you can burn it up, and if it is too rich, you can wash the cylinders with gasoline and NEVER achieve proper ring seal AND cause more damage. Herko and Stroker are the very top of the class dyno tuners if you didn't know. I would put those two guys against the best in the country... hell they ARE the best in the country, IMHO.

The problem arises with 'starter maps' for new builds if YOU have no means to monitor the fuel AFRs. Do you? IF not, then why even think of doing this? Too many maps are 'off' enough to run lean/rich... that I, myself would never chance this on an expensive build. (I have purchased all kinds of tuning tools to be able to check my own AFRs to eliminate even the hint of crappy feuling.)

All of that, that you have 'heard', comes from the days bikes had carbs. One would guess, and then install one larger jet for slight increase in fuel. Todays EFI dials things way better, but... a map that is not correct can also damage a bike fairly quick, sometimes.

I personally use the S&S method, but monitor fuel very closely. This is due to my having no GOOD dynos close by.

And... a dyno break in does NOT run a bike full bore all out balls to the walls, either. A good dyno operator will adjust the fuel TO MATCH THE BIKE and will keep all the revs to what is needed, and then you come back later for a full tune.
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Last edited by wurk_truk; 06-08-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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FMJ, if you were paying attention to the site for any length of time you would know that Stroker JK (Jim), Wurk Truk (John) and now I (Kerry) all own SE 120R powered bikes.

The advise being given is solid. You can do more damage to your precious build by trying to break it in with someone's borrowed map than by having it broken in by a skilled / qualified tuner on the dyno. The fans on the dyno control the heat and break in under a load is much preferable than going through the paces on some back country road. No offense, well maybe some offense intended, but I am going to also suggest that a qualified professional tuner will also have much more discipline than a hot rods owner when it comes to twisting the throttle in a responsible manner. Dyno break in is much more that a series of full pulls. It is actually a very controlled process involving varied levels of load and throttle blade opening to prepare the engine for it's future life.

I have had two bikes broken in on the dyno after performance work and would not consider doing it any other way. Both of my bikes have quality maps built specifically for them. No "auto tune" or canned map will ever deliver the level of performance or reliability that I enjoy from the dyno built maps in my bikes. Did it cost a little more, yes I paid $500 for the "new motor break in" at the shop that tunes my stuff and there is the cost of the tuning device (Screamin Eagle tuners on both of mine) but the end result is well worth it.
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I agree totally with the advice given here. And I will attest to the damage that can be done by running a "break in" map. When I bought my present bike, I had the dealer do the 103" "big bore". I had the heads sent out and ported and went with Andrews 37 cams. They flashed the ECM with some map and told me to go put 1000 miles on it and come back for dyno tune. It is my opinion that considerable damage was done to the top end in that 1000 miles. The motor never did produce the power I'd hoped for and, eventually shelled out with a scored rear cylinder in just 27,000 miles. It is my opinion that the ring seal was permanently damaged in the first few miles due to a very lean "map" for break in.

The break in on a dyno by someone who knows what they are doing will seat the rings very well. This really only takes a few tens of miles or so. On the dyno, knocking (detonation), Air Fuel Ratio, and engine speed and load can be very finely controlled. Adjustments can be made immediately to prevent longterm damage to the engine. And, the bonus is that when the full dyno break in and tune are done, the bike is ready to ride. It's already broken in.

I personally, would trailer my bike to a good dyno tuner to have all this done on a new engine before I ever rode it. I think it is that critical. Good luck.

EDIT: as far as that goes, I see you are from Tennessee. Stroker is just up the road in central Illinois. Would be well worth the trailer trip to take your bike to him for the dyno. Hell, I take mine 600 miles to western Wisconsin to BvBob to get it tuned. I think it's that critical.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the great advice from everyone. The only dynos in my area ( west TN) are a couple of dealerships. I dont know the tuners at either one or how much experience they have. May have to take my chances with one of them. I was planning to take a day off from work to ride the bike several hundred miles, so I wouldn't rule out using that day to travel a little to get a good tune. Stroker, where are you located ? Thanks again, I appreciate the advice. I have had the bike apart since the first of the year....Im ready to ride it now
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Next month, July, you can go to Louisville HD. John Wadsworth, Herko, will start working there, and HE can really get that tuning done for you, my friend.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks wurk truk. Don't know if I can hold out until july though. I havent got to ride so far this year, and with this new engine the suspense is killing me I did load a 120R map in it and do a couple of short heat cycles yesterday.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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120 R mapping

Just rode home my RG Custom with a 120R motor. The tune is so aweful I could almost scream. Way too rich. The mechanic said ride it like that until we do a tune but I know better.

Question is who in South Florida or Florida is best known for dyno-tune work?

Any comments or ideas - -greatly appreciated.

Roach
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:12 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agroach View Post
Just rode home my RG Custom with a 120R motor. The tune is so aweful I could almost scream. Way too rich. The mechanic said ride it like that until we do a tune but I know better.

Question is who in South Florida or Florida is best known for dyno-tune work?

Any comments or ideas - -greatly appreciated.

Roach
Here is one of the best tuners in Florida >>

http://docsperformancetuning.com/index.html
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks IronButttrike -

Any tuners in South Floriday guys?
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Doc called with an opening - going Thursday.
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