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Old 12-25-2011, 04:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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88 to 95 help

1999 flht bagger
bone 88 stock motor.
screaming eagle ignition.
bottomend redone by rev performance 20,000 miles ago.
high flow air filter
carb rejetted.
fishtail pipes with small baffle [ basically half the size as the original]

ok i took the heads and jugs to the local shop to to be reworked and the jugs to be bored out to a 95. Keith black pistons, they were set to there specs, end gap on top ring , clearance etc. we put everything together and i have a really bad knock seems to be coming from the top of the motor both front and back. so we tore it back down just to see if everything was ok and it was, all the parts set there for over a month and you could press the lifters in, so i took them apart [ i know they say there not serviceable but i just cleaned them, ive done it before] and filled them with oil, i have 24 tpi adjustable push rods so i adjusted them out 2.4 turns... it sound like the top end to me everything in the motor minus the boring of the jugs is the same as it was before and it run like a top...i now we cant fix it here but does anyone have any advice of what to check next? or did i go about this 95 build all wrong..?

Last edited by dumas; 12-25-2011 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 04:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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btw when it was down i also pulled the cams to check the cam tensioners and everything there seems fine, no wear, cams looked good, bearings were good..
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Old 12-25-2011, 04:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nitram_b4 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
everything ok? did you check the wrist pin fitment and connecting rod endplay?
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Old 12-25-2011, 04:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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yes i checked the connecting rod end play its good and the wrist pins are good and i rechecked the wrist pin clips there still in place and good. compensator nut is good also. is this even possible to build a 95 without changing cams and porting heads etc? i hope i didnt make a huge blunder here..

Last edited by dumas; 12-25-2011 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Pull the pushrods and look for rub marks,If you have even one rubbing it can sound like the engine is coming apart..
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Are the new pistons cast or forged? If they are forged and they are heavier than the stockers, there may be enough change to throw it out of balance. I don't know what the amount of differance from stock is allowable or how much will start giving you problems. But, I'd like to know. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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KB forged hypereutectic pistons are 3.885 in. Bore/9.25:1 Ratio..they are lighter... and i checked for rubs, they are none, im starting to think i got a bad lifter,when i pulled them the second time on 2 of them the retainer spring was out on 1 side.
Is there an instance where the pushrods need to be adjusted more or less???
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Instead of shooting for.100" on the pushrods into the lifters... try to go .140-150" on the pushrods. Stockish lifters seems to like being preloaded more than stock recommended height.

I would also recommend looking at the bore job. Is it straight with no taper, no out of round, etc. The shop who bored the cylinders... they had the pistons on hand when the bored the cylinders? They used torque plates? They work on MOCO cylinders on a regular basis? The shop should have a decent bore gauge, with you right there... check the bores on both cylinders.

Seems to me that you did everything correctly, on your end, but something is amiss and now you have to hunt down what the problem is.
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Last edited by wurk_truk; 12-25-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wurk_truk View Post
Instead of shooting for.100" on the pushrods into the lifters... try to go .140-150" on the pushrods. Stockish lifters seems to like being preloaded more than stock recommended height.
I agree, I ended up going 3.5 turns on my se taper pushrods in the softail. I am using perfect fit in my roadglide.
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Old 12-25-2011, 07:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wurk_truk View Post
Instead of shooting for.100" on the pushrods into the lifters... try to go .140-150" on the pushrods. Stockish lifters seems to like being preloaded more than stock recommended height.

I would also recommend looking at the bore job. Is it straight with no taper, no out of round, etc. The shop who bored the cylinders... they had the pistons on hand when the bored the cylinders? They used torque plates? They work on MOCO cylinders on a regular basis? The shop should have a decent bore gauge, with you right there... check the bores on both cylinders.

Seems to me that you did everything correctly, on your end, but something is amiss and now you have to hunt down what the problem is.
Absolutely. I just went throught this myself. 2 years of listening to my knocking bitch and found the cyls to be barrel shaped. .003 in the middle and .005+ on the ends. Would only knock on warmup or if idled too long. Quiet as a mouse when cold.
Just had a guy do my 120 cyls to .010 over (the barreled set) and he went oversize on one. Bought a new one for me and I opted to get another new one to match it. Checked the bores with my bore gauge and one especially was .0005 under minimum clearance on the top halfs of the barrels. Took them back as well as my mike and bore gauge so we were on the same page when touching them up. He checked, I varified and we are both happy now. Me for getting exactly what I wanted, and I'm sure he was glad to see the old bastard leave. Things like this happen every day so it's best to always double check prior to assembling an engine. First time I had blind faith in it being done right and only just found out it wasn't. This was from a major long time engine kit builder too.
Ron
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Dumas, I learned and posted here about the cylinder boring, because of what rbabos just recently went through. Him... and I, have just learned the hard way to trust nobody nor anything. It is always best to double check whats going on prior to assembly.

I used to be very trusting on buying folks 'kits'. I am not really less trusting now, because I and Ron WILL from now on double check everything. I have bad days all the time, and it's no big deal. But a shop guy can have a bad day, too. And THAT wouldn't be a big deal either... as long as any mistake is caught during assembly. Everyone is human.
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbabos View Post
Absolutely. I just went throught this myself. 2 years of listening to my knocking bitch and found the cyls to be barrel shaped. .003 in the middle and .005+ on the ends. Would only knock on warmup or if idled too long. Quiet as a mouse when cold.
Just had a guy do my 120 cyls to .010 over (the barreled set) and he went oversize on one. Bought a new one for me and I opted to get another new one to match it. Checked the bores with my bore gauge and one especially was .0005 under minimum clearance on the top halfs of the barrels. Took them back as well as my mike and bore gauge so we were on the same page when touching them up. He checked, I varified and we are both happy now. Me for getting exactly what I wanted, and I'm sure he was glad to see the old bastard leave. Things like this happen every day so it's best to always double check prior to assembling an engine. First time I had blind faith in it being done right and only just found out it wasn't. This was from a major long time engine kit builder too.
Ron
Ok Ron you got me second guessing the bore job I just had done. Not going to mention the loss of sleep til I get them double checked.
I already have my doubts but I maybe wrong. Its not like close enough is good enough - it's either RIGHT or Kick em' to the curb.


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Old 12-25-2011, 10:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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the shop has been boring cylinders for almost 30 yrs, but im going to check anyway. and yes they had the pistons on hand when they bored them. no torgue plates...
If i lengthen the pushrods will i have to gp through the process again or can i shortcut and roll them over on the lobes like usual and add it then?....im going to try that first before i tear it down yet again..

ok how much is to much on the bore, i ordered kb 3.885 pistons and rings and told the shop to overbore .001 for clearance like the dirrections said..

Last edited by dumas; 12-25-2011 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I had a bike in that had what I thought was intense rod knock, but found the oil pump georotor had cracked in half.
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Old 12-26-2011, 01:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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ok i adjusted the pushrods up 50% more and the same noise persists, i quess its time to check the tolerances on the bore / pistons before i mess something up..
BTW help me understand this if i bought 3.885 pistons and want .001 clearance what should the bore be?
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