Valve train noise with Woods cams : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

Tom Arnold · 07-01-2010, 04:09 PM

have a 2003 roadking with a 106 kit. Put the harley screaming eagle stroker in it and the new s&s 106 top end with Branch heads. Have Bob Woods 408 cams (650 lift), what Bob recommeded. Also have his new directional lifters, s&s roller rockers, and the red billet rocker arm support plates that gary williams makes for bob that move the pushrods inward to keep the pushrods from hittin the tubes and correct the geometry and a 55mm HPI throttlebody. Runs very well. 120hp and 121 tq. However at 50 mph it sounds like a little man is inside with a hammer. At 60 mph it gets worse. At 70 mph even with the stereo up it sounds like that little man is beating his way out of the heads. Is this the normal Bob Woods cam noise others talk about or is mine as I have discribed it worse.

nw_guy4_fun · 07-01-2010, 04:35 PM

Did they set up the heads for the .650 lift?
Geometry matters with this much lift

claydbal · 07-01-2010, 04:38 PM

gear drive?

Tom Arnold · 07-01-2010, 10:58 PM

Yes Bob gave me the numbers he wanted the stem seal height set at, I provided them with piston info so my final compression was 10:5 and no not gear drive. Bob recommended and sold me the new harely hydraulic cam plate ( not the screaming eagle one, the stock style) and upgraded harley oil pump.

nw_guy4_fun · 07-02-2010, 10:30 AM

Check everything and verify with Branch the protrusion and spring pressures used. How was the protrusion accomplished? longer valves?head top cut?both?
Roller rockers may be hitting on either side, center the boxes and rocker supports. Then check for retainer to box clearance. If that is fine and nothing changes be sure your pushrods are not hitting in the tubes. OK and all is good, play with different lifter preloads.
Still issues?
Call Dan Baisley and get corrected rockers
side note
Consider piston slap presents similarly to valve noise.

TheNowhereman · 07-02-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nw_guy4_fun

Check everything and verify with Branch the protrusion and spring pressures used. How was the protrusion accomplished? longer valves?head top cut?both?
Roller rockers may be hitting on either side, center the boxes and rocker supports. Then check for retainer to box clearance. If that is fine and nothing changes be sure your pushrods are not hitting in the tubes. OK and all is good, play with different lifter preloads.
Still issues?
Call Dan Baisley and get corrected rockers
side note
Consider piston slap presents similarly to valve noise.

Good suggestions for noise abatement.
For starters though, drain your oil then run a a good 50 wt. in it for a week or two.
Tell us if your noise level drops or goes away.

DURWOOD · 07-02-2010, 10:52 AM

I run Branch #4 heads,and had a similar noise in mine,ended up being the pushrods hitting the tubes,and the fact that a local Indy shop sold me a set of S&S roller rockers and installed a set of CHEAP knockoff's instead.I didn't even get a kiss.lol
I put in a set of tapered push rods and a different set of rockers.
Now my bike is quiet and the shop that pulled the switcheroo is less one more customer.
I am betting the push rods are rubbing on yours as well..
Good luck.

nw_guy4_fun · 07-02-2010, 11:04 AM

HQ575 and Wood 408????

Tom Arnold · 07-02-2010, 11:12 AM

I will check all above. I did send in Bob's springs and all cam spec's along with the height that he wanted the stem seal height cut at. I also had Gary Williams ( who also makes the rocker support plates for Bob) bore out and teflon coat my pushrod tubes, and as prev mentioned using the rocker arm supports that Gary makes that move the pushrods inward .30 to correct this issue. I was running 50wt harley oil. Gary told me to get this out and go to Amsoil 15-50 dominator race oil ( no other amsoil product just the dominator oil). I did and it's better but still very loud. Like I said at 70mph on highway, Its as loud as my stereo and all other road noise. I think this is more than the normal Bob Woods cam noise. I did have these Branch heads on my 95in motor with the Branch cams and had a little noise but nothing like this. And yes the heads were sent back to Branch and re-done for this build.

DynaBagger · 07-02-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Arnold

Also have his new directional lifters, s&s roller rockers, and the red billet rocker arm support plates that gary williams makes for bob that move the pushrods inward to keep the pushrods from hittin the tubes and correct the geometry and a 55mm HPI throttlebody. .

How exactly does a rocker support plate change the pushrod geometry without moving the roller off the optimum position on the vavle tip? I would think the rocker arm would need to be redesigned? Am I missing something?

Tom Arnold · 07-02-2010, 11:27 AM

Go to Bob Woods web site and look for the rocker arm support plates. It shows them and tells better than I do what they do. I talked to Bob and Gary Williams both and they talk circles around me. If I could answer this question then I could fix my own problem. I'm lost as hell here. Love my power, but hate the noise.

DynaBagger · 07-02-2010, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Arnold

Go to Bob Woods web site and look for the rocker arm support plates. It shows them and tells better than I do what they do. I talked to Bob and Gary Williams both and they talk circles around me. If I could answer this question then I could fix my own problem. I'm lost as hell here. Love my power, but hate the noise.

Fair enough Tom. Always a lot to absorb. Thats why I always have to read things over and over to make sure it sinks in.

As for the noise, I ran a his TW6Hg and man that thing was noisy. Now we'll see how the 9B is. Hopefully I've covered everthing needed to keep it as quiet as it can be, ie; baisely corrected geometry rockers, shimming the rockers, clearancing all the areas in the rocker covers, etc.

One thing about his cams, they work well for power and torque.

DURWOOD · 07-02-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nw_guy4_fun

HQ575 and Wood 408????

I realize we are running different cams, but that noise he is describing sounds just like mine did,(The little man with a hammer)

It was very obnoxious to say the least..

BVBOB · 07-02-2010, 01:14 PM

That is a very aggressive ramped cam you are running , you have to expect more noise than stock, noise is a relative thing, what is unbearable to some is not noticed by others. Hey Durwood, is that little man with the hammer any relation to the little man in the boat.

tmwmoose · 07-02-2010, 02:03 PM

I went down this road last year with a TR662 conversion cam same noise spent $$ and time chasing it only had a 55n cam to swap it with and of course it was quiet. So I go back to my gear drive cams rs657 r&r615, crane 296, woods 408 i get some what more of commond noise out of these with the woods of course sounding like a baseball card in the bicicle spokes. I mentioned an idea to a few men "who know" but they offered no reply just the usual check this this and that no my stuff isn't noisey,my idea is the front cam is out there by itself were talking chain drive here the rear is held stable by two chain's so it is not as prone to counter rock as the the lifter pressure effects each ramp, that make sense, were as the front I wonder will it deflect as each lobe passes a lifter it would only take a very small amount of chain slack to produce a good tank tank tank noise your describing mine did, and it was 80 persent front cyl exhaust and a little from the rear ex I think the hydralic tensioner is going to bleed down some especailly with high lift and 180lbs springs . just my thoughts on a high lift hydr chain drive who knows but I did stay at a holiday in express once I think. And NOW that 662 cam is now offered back in gear drive agian and it's seller said his was quiet in his personal bike says I must be over looking something come to find out he has a gear drive in his *#!% never a dull moment