Gas out the exhaust pipe : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

econnor · 02-13-2009, 08:51 PM

A buddy asked to take a look at a friend of his bike. He has spent too too much money for the problems he has had with this bike.

It is a 2006 96" with the SE air filter and some stupid looking VH Longshots?

History: The bike ran real bad so a questionable local indi recomended a DFO thing, sold it to him, installed it and it still ran poor (missing, coughing, pissing gas out the exhaust). Then he took it to the stealership and they said the problem was the DFO and recomended a Power Commander. They installed it, mapped it and the bike would still run like ****.

This is where I get the bike. Right of the trailer the bike would hardly crank so I charged the battery and it fired right up. I re-set the map in the PC with one I downloaded off the PV website. The bike ran well. But only for a little while.

Complications: He had some funky (ridiculous looking) led turn signals installed at one of the bike week events and there are odd wires everywhere under his seat.

Current Status: Today he brought the bike back to my place. I couldn't even get the bike to fire and gas was running out the exhaust pipes. I removed the PC and the bike started but ran very rough and would not idle. But at least gas was not running out the exhaust pipe.

What should I be looking for? Pinched wire, bad sensor, control module? This bike has less than 10k miles.

I hate to send him back to the stealer but FI is out of my lane.

DDuess · 02-13-2009, 11:14 PM

If the system works like a car look for a short in the return wire for an injector. The ecm grounds the injectors to open them, if the injector is grounded when bike is powered up, it will spray fuel. Also a bad ecm, or injectors stuck open due to dirt or gum.

econnor · 02-14-2009, 09:30 AM

I pulled the gas tank this morning, these fuel injected bikes have allot going on under the tank.

All the wires look new, unpinched or kinked. Nothing out of the ordinary. I see the wires going to the injectors. Where do the other ends come out at?

econnor · 02-14-2009, 09:02 PM

So I measured resistance to ground on both leads at each of the injectors. The readings from the front injector leads and rear injector leads are identical. I did this measuement with the ECCM connected and disconnected.

I think I have ruled out the possibility of a grounded injector wire. Does this mean the ECCM module is bad?

DDuess · 02-15-2009, 03:42 PM

I think you are at the point you need the electrical section manual. Unplug the injectors and crank it, if the flooding condition clears and the bike fires, points to electrical. If that is the case, then the problem is electrical, if it flooded w/o power to the injectors, it is a stuck/hung injector. The only quick way to tell if it is the ecm, is with a known good ecm to see if it starts/run with replacement ecm. This advise is of course worth all of what you paid for it...

**baggersport** · 02-15-2009, 03:50 PM

Have you run the bike without any devices? I'm assuming someone has been changing spark plugs in between these problems?? Any codes?

.

RattFXR · 02-15-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDuess

I think you are at the point you need the electrical section manual. Unplug the injectors and crank it, if the flooding condition clears and the bike fires, points to electrical. If that is the case, then the problem is electrical, if it flooded w/o power to the injectors, it is a stuck/hung injector. The only quick way to tell if it is the ecm, is with a known good ecm to see if it starts/run with replacement ecm. This advise is of course worth all of what you paid for it...

Seems to be very sound advice, but to add to the dirty/stuck injector, you should have the bike on for that, as it does have a fuel pump. With the power on the fuel pump should prime the injectors, but if they are unplugged they shouldn't spray, unless there is a blockage. You could pull them out for this. That's it, my two brain cells are done colliding....

econnor · 02-15-2009, 08:58 PM

Everyone, thanks for all of your help. I have removed the power commander and several other gay electrical things the owner had wired in. The bike is back to stock except for pipes and air filter so it should run ok, but still snaps, coughs, back fires. But no more gas out the pipe. I found a posting on HDforums about how to read the codes through the speedometer display. Tomorrow I will put the tank back on and read the codes. I suspect it will have to go back to the stealer.

econnor · 02-21-2009, 12:08 PM

So this bike still runs bad. Whoever put the PC in routed the wires in a way that the tire rubbed on them. Ouch. I have pulled the PC and all the other gay LED electrical mess and the bike is back to stock except for AF and pipes.

Today I cleared the codes and went for a 15 minute ride. No gas out the exhaust pipe but it seemed to only be hitting on one cyclinder. Checked the codes and sure enough, rear cylinder no ignition.

Measured resistance on the wires are approx 3k rear and 6k front. Plugs have been changed. For whatever reason I cannot see spark on either cylinder with the plugs grounded, but yet the bike will run with only the front wire connected. Bike will not run with only the rear wire connected.

So I think I have it narrowed down to either the coil, wires between the coil and the ECM or the ECM.

I know how to check the coils in my EVO but this TC coil has four terminals going into it.

Does anyone know how to check a TC coil with an ohm meter?

TheNowhereman · 02-21-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by econnor

So this bike still runs bad. Whoever put the PC in routed the wires in a way that the tire rubbed on them. Ouch. I have pulled the PC and all the other gay LED electrical mess and the bike is back to stock except for AF and pipes.

Today I cleared the codes and went for a 15 minute ride. No gas out the exhaust pipe but it seemed to only be hitting on one cyclinder. Checked the codes and sure enough, rear cylinder no ignition.

Measured resistance on the wires are approx 3k rear and 6k front. Plugs have been changed. For whatever reason I cannot see spark on either cylinder with the plugs grounded, but yet the bike will run with only the front wire connected. Bike will not run with only the rear wire connected.

So I think I have it narrowed down to either the coil, wires between the coil and the ECM or the ECM.

I know how to check the coils in my EVO but this TC coil has four terminals going into it.

Does anyone know how to check a TC coil with an ohm meter?

Wow..

HDMD88 · 02-21-2009, 12:25 PM

Check Crank Position Sensor, Engine Temp Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor.

econnor · 02-21-2009, 07:46 PM

I picked up a manual today for this bike, maybe the only relevant information in it is the wiring harness schematic. Using an ohm meter I have checked every wire from end to end that has anything to do with the sensors, coil, and injectors. No open wires, no shorts, so I think I am at the point where I tap out and tell my buddy to take it to the dealer.

Unless someone has any other suggestions.

Currently the bike is giving a code that says rear cylinder no combustion, like no ****.

Anyone have any ideas? I am all ears. Otherwise Tuesday it will go to the dealer.

1711tab · 02-21-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by econnor

I picked up a manual today for this bike, maybe the only relevant information in it is the wiring harness schematic. Using an ohm meter I have checked every wire from end to end that has anything to do with the sensors, coil, and injectors. No open wires, no shorts, so I think I am at the point where I tap out and tell my buddy to take it to the dealer.

Unless someone has any other suggestions.

Currently the bike is giving a code that says rear cylinder no combustion, like no ****.

Anyone have any ideas? I am all ears. Otherwise Tuesday it will go to the dealer.

PM HDMD88, "Doc" is top self... He posted to check the following; Check Crank Position Sensor, Engine Temp Sensor, Throttle Position Sensor

BVBOB · 02-21-2009, 09:16 PM

Have you checked compression on the rear cylinder yet? after that I would be inspecting the pins at the injector connections and also at the backside of the injector plug ends where they are criped to the pins, aside from that either the coil is not firing or the plug wire itself is bad. Other than that I would look for a stuck injector. You did mention it had a pcIII installed, you might also want to check all the pins at the ecm connection.

1711tab · 02-21-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVBOB

Have you checked compression on the rear cylinder yet? after that I would be inspecting the pins at the injector connections and also at the backside of the injector plug ends where they are criped to the pins, aside from that either the coil is not firing or the plug wire itself is bad. Other than that I would look for a stuck injector. You did mention it had a pcIII installed, you might also want to check all the pins at the ecm connection.

Bob when I fired mine back up I had a bad injector (rear)... So that could be it... I replaced both injectors and both cylinders fired right off...