107 or 117

[cardboard]

Was going to take the 08 FLHT from a 96 to a 107cu with Woods 408-44.
Was told by the time I do the timken bearings and the crank balanced and welded for a few hundred dollars more I could go to a 117cu build. The 117 would be the best torque for the money.
When doing the 117cu. if I used the 408-44 cam which is a 530 lift I wouldn't have to use roller rockers.
But if I went with the 408-6 cam which is a 650 lift I would git about 5-7 hp more.
If I go to the 650 lift cam with Roller Rockers can I use the SE pushrods I have in now and the lifters or do I need to change.
And with the 650 lift cam if I go to like Big Bend State Park and can only find 87 octane fuel how will the 650 lift cam run compared to the 530 lift. I plan on using the Axtell cylinder kit which it 10.25.1.

Thanks for any help.

[Hillside]

The 408-6 will carry more torque, sooner, but at 10.25 cr, more would be on tap, if you ever upped the compression.
Scott

[nighttrain67]

If you want to stay that low on compression, I would use the milder cam set. Going 117 is a good move, but my experience with the SE pushrods are that they almost always have pushrod tube rubbing issues and they are heavy. You could go with an adjustable, non-quick install (I like Smith Brothers) 3/8 pushrod and be a lot better off. Either way, it should be a nice running, very reliable ride with the compression your looking at.

[cardboard]

Forgot to ask would the stock cam plate be sufficient for either cam. I plan to stay chain drive. That is another reason I was wanting to stay with adjustable push rods. So it would make it easier to check the shoes and pull the cams.
ARe the Se Pushrods not strong enough for the build.
Know my buddy that did a build used bigger S&S Pushrods and he had to put his pushrods in threw the lifter blocks and slide the lifter blocks back on the cases. It made it tough to install them and then adjust them.

[nighttrain67]

Stock cam plate will be fine, and from what I understand about the new chain drive setup, you are ok there, as well. As far as the pushrods, the SE's are definately easier to work with, but they are heavy and bulky. I prefer the non-quick install type, but there are plenty of builds out there running just fine with SE pushrods.

[Hillside]

Originally Posted by cardboard

Forgot to ask would the stock cam plate be sufficient for either cam. I plan to stay chain drive. That is another reason I was wanting to stay with adjustable push rods. So it would make it easier to check the shoes and pull the cams.
ARe the Se Pushrods not strong enough for the build.
Know my buddy that did a build used bigger S&S Pushrods and he had to put his pushrods in threw the lifter blocks and slide the lifter blocks back on the cases. It made it tough to install them and then adjust them.

OEM camplate will be just fine.
The S&S pushrod kits we offer, comes with new tubes, that allow easy install/removal.
The 117" with either cam, will pick the tire on the agressive 1-2 gear change, no problem, but be tame otherwise. Large fun.
Scott

[cardboard]

With the 408-44 cam, how would it act if I tried to run over 120 with somebody with a 124 that has a 640 lift cam.
Will I have a lot of botton end and not much on the top end.

[Hillside]

Strong chance that you'll have more 65 mph roll-on power(ie torque) than him, unless the other bike is of much lighter weight.
Crate-motor 124" with a .640 aren't what folks think.
But bring 1/2 point compression to them with a Wood 9B, and then things change.
Scott

[BVBOB]

Keep in mind there are more things to consider, will you possibly need to upgrade clutch? are you an aggresive rider? if so, will the belt hold up, I'm all for the more cubes idea but keep in mind, more cubes generally equals more low end torque which greatly increases loads to the drivetrain.

[arealinvestor]

Originally Posted by cardboard

With the 408-44 cam, how would it act if I tried to run over 120 with somebody with a 124 that has a 640 lift cam.
Will I have a lot of botton end and not much on the top end.

Lol!!!! It already sounds as if you have your hands full.Why play?? Just go 124ci from the door.If you don't, & go with the 117 & get your ass whipped then you will be mad that you didn't go bigger from the door!!!!!!

[nw_guy4_fun]

What Bob said.
Cutting edge is close to bleeding edge, remember. It is not necessary to build a 117" motor to maximum potential. A milder version will still spank just about anything out there but Ducatis and asian bikes. This is a bagger and trips will happen and you are in TX where it gets stinkin hot.
You are likely to notice that at the gas stops that only offer 87 they are at high elevation, and IIRC there are spots in Tx that get over 7k feet. If at that elevation 87 will work fine. With either of the cams would set at 88cc for 9.16/1 corrected (10.15/1 dynamic) CR and then even a bad load of gas at sea level would not be a catastrophy. The higher lift cam will require stiffer valve springs and accelerate valvetrain wear over the long haul, and the only ones that will deny that are salesman, but it will yield more torque especially at elevation where cylinder pressure dininishes due to lower air pressure.
Get your quotes and then get quotes on a warranty covered 124" S&S crate motor. There are blow outs on these happening because of the economy. I am working a set of these heads right now and was amazed how much improvement can be made with minor changes and then a little head mill and the 124 will make 130/130 with no mods. The 124" TC is a scratch build designed and engineered motor with a Timken right out of the box. All things considered you may find the crate motor a better option. Your motor can be sold or kept in case you sell the bike and want to go back.
BTW I am not an S&S dealer but I am a Wood Performance dealer, just for the clarification, but would recomend many other grinds as well in the context of the build according to what I felt the customer really wants and needs and considering the budget.

[nighttrain67]

Originally Posted by arealinvestor

Lol!!!! It already sounds as if you have your hands full.Why play?? Just go 124ci from the door.If you don't, & go with the 117 & get your ass whipped then you will be mad that you didn't go bigger from the door!!!!!!

I have spanked many a 124" with my little 117.....Everything else being equal, then the 124" would make a little more power, but I will take a well built 117" over a mediocre built 124" any day of the week.

[arealinvestor]

Originally Posted by nighttrain67

I have spanked many a 124" with my little 117.....Everything else being equal, then the 124" would make a little more power, but I will take a well built 117" over a mediocre built 124" any day of the week.

Understood Night!!! But who is going to build a mild 124???It's obvious he's running up against the big league already!!! So why not go all out from the door???A hot 124 will get the job done!!!

[nighttrain67]

Originally Posted by arealinvestor

Understood Night!!! But who is going to build a mild 124???It's obvious he's running up against the big league already!!! So why not go all out from the door???A hot 124 will get the job done!!!

But he is talking about 10.25:1 compression and 87 Octane. Unless he changes the goals of the build, going to a 124" build is not going to bring that much more to the table, in my opinion. There are a bunch of mild 124" builds out there, especially on baggers with riders who are looking for reliability over big dyno numbers. I have seen plenty of 124" builds in the 120's for Tq/Hp with very happy owners......I wouldn't be one of them, but they are out there.

[nw_guy4_fun]

There is advertised dynamic CR and then there is corrected for camshaft.
Based on the 88cc chamber I used...
The 117" with Axtell dished pistons
10.15/1, 9.15/1 corrected, about 189ccp psi, is not hard to run with proper tuning.