Play In Clutch Basket Assy Normal??

[calin]

WOW

wow

whew

holy sh^!

ClassicRider, thanks so much for the info!! Sounds like you saved me a huge nightmare!!!!

As I was looking at this bearing it didn't look like anything I had seen before....now I understand why.....awsome post

I will follow your path and go with the new basket 37846-99A (37 tooth). I guess I must buy the socket and trans pulley tool as I am changing the pulley to 24 tooth for a final of 3:37 to 1. Also I have 15K on the drive belt, it looks OK I may change it while I have it apart.

thanks again.

[ClassicRider]

Calin....

I didn't necessarily state that you should purchase a "NEW" 37 Tooth HD# 37846-99A "Clutch SHELL Basket for the 3.37 gearing, although finding someone with a quality used one is sometimes a game of patience and perhaps since you have already torn into your primary, it's only logical to consider a NEW clutch shell basket (HD# 37846-99A)....the price I quoted you above was for a "new" CLUTCH HUB HD# 37904-90 (ie: $133.00) retail. A NEW "Clutch SHELL Basket HD# 37846-99A 37 Tooth Is $320.00 retail -20% from a 20% Discount HD Dealer = $256.00. What is specifically included when you purchase HD# 37846-99A as a part number is:
1) Clutch Shell Basket with the 37 tooth gear ring attached to it
2) HD #37906-90 Koyo 5207 CD3 FG Double Row Angular Contact Bearing Retail $61.99
3) HD #37905-00 Large Retaining Ring For Securing The Koyo 5207 Bearing To Clutch Shell basket Retail $7.99

What I was talking about of course previously was purchasing a "new" CLUTCH HUB HD# 37904-90 Retail $133.00 which is not as easily acquired "gently used" or previously owned because most simply pull their "stock" clutch hub and press it into the "newly" acquired clutch shell basket....but as I have stated this is where the "delima" exists....when you purchase a gently used/previously owned clutch shell basket and it arrives to you, and you find the KOYO 5207 bearing installed how do you know what measures were taken to appropriately remove / seperate the "clutch hub" (because they still want to retain their clutch hub) from the bearing within the "clutch shell basket" you are acquiring??? My point is you simply don't....and as I previously stated in the above post it's pretty much impossible to do so right without potentially ruining the race of the KOYO 5207 bearing. I know I have read a lot of posts about switching between the 3.15 gearing and 3.17 gearing and no one really mentions this detail....but when you sit down and look at everything closely you will "see" what I am referring to as the "potential" and most "probable" problem in reusing the 5207 KOYO bearing once the clutch hub has been seperated from the bearing. The only person I ever read mentioning this issue was HIPPO who made a one line comment about being careful with the bearing and it's races....So for me at least I will take the MOST conservative approach and replace the bearing.....

".....I guess I must buy the socket and trans pulley tool as I am changing the pulley to 24 tooth for a final of 3:37 to 1....."

Ummmm no, the only things you are changing internally to go from 3.15 gearing to 3.37 gearing is changing the "clutch shell basket" HD# 37846-99 37 Tooth as mentioned above and you will also be changing the Front Compensating Sprocket from 25 Tooth which you currently have and replacing it with HD# 40269-85A which is a 24 Tooth Compensating Sprocket retailing for $135.00. Of course this can sometimes be found amongst members "gently used" or previously owned as well....But ONCE again if your bike is already torn apart and patience is not on your side then back to a 20% Discount Dealer and start spending some more money....lol.

If you read that e~mail I sent to you (attached with the PDF) at the bottom you will see the $11.00 tool you could have made at an IRON shop to properly remove the comp sprocket and clutch shell basket but I have already read above that you have them removed already as you purchased the tools necessary to remove and resecure them. But there is no need to remove the "Trans Pulley" as you mentioned above....that "pulley" you are referring to remains as it is currently in your bike....the "modification" from 3.15 to 3.37 gearing doesn't require removing anything further than the Clutch Shell Basket from 36 Tooth making it larger to 37 tooth and modifiying the compensating sprocket reducing it from 25 tooth to 24 tooth. The "CLUTCH HUB" I referred to that you might consider replacing as well will SIMPLY ALLOW you or anyone to change between the two ratios as a COMPLETE unit while only needing to take the contents of the "clutch shell basket assembly" and moving them between the set ups.....and while I mentioning parts you will also need to secure another clutch hub retaining ring HD# 37904-90 if you choose to keep your stock set up undisturbed persay.....

Regards,

"ClassicRider"

[Booggerbe]

Thanks classicrider, you saved me a lot of wind lol. Listen to what Classicrider has said and i agree with him 100%. I have been there and done this change many a times and a new bearing is cheap insurance. Thanks again Classic. booggerbe

[Bruce Woltz]

".....and as Boogerbe suggests this bearing may be the culpret and still may have some participation in what you are hearing...."

If the sound that you hear does not change between stopped in gear, clutch in and stopped in neutral clutch out, I doubt it's that bearing. Stopped in gear, that bearing is spining. Clutch out in neutral, inner and outer races are at the same speed.

Bruce

[ClassicRider]

Boogerbe....

We are probably in the "minority" with the feelings of "reusing" a already pressed in bearing.....as I have said it certainly hasn't been much of a cautionary topic when doing the modification from 3.15 gearing to 3.37 gearing.....

-----------------------------

Bruce Woltz......

There is certainly some validity to what you have added, that slipped right passed me.....I was concentrating on the "reusing" of the bearing....and the logic of that....than paying particular attention to calin's "whirling" noise....


I have had an indy mechanic explain it to me this way....so I am open to correction on this matter....

"When the clutch lever is pulled in to engage the clutch the bearing begins spinning. When the bike is stationary and in neutral or when the bike is moving and the clutch is not engaged that bearing is not spinning and wouldn't make a noise....it only is moving/spinning with the clutch lever pulled in...." (This would be easy to simulate if one were to place their bike on a bike jack and place it off the ground and start the bike while allowing the bike to run in gear) Thus the only responsibility that the "bearing" might have with calin's "whirling" noise is whether or not he can isolate what he is "hearing" when pulling in the "clutch and activating the "spinning" of the bearing. If he is "hearing" what he perceives to be a problem outside of these parameters then his issues are elsewhere.

Regardless......I still believe that replacing the bearing each time it is pressed away from the clutch basket is the most conservative and wise choice one can make....just standard operating procedure for my peace of mind.

Regards,

"ClassicRider"

[Booggerbe]

I give up so go with your convictions. Good Day. booggerbe

[calin]

Thanks to all who is participating in this thread. I am recieving great insight.

My parts should be here any day now and I can't wait to get started. I can only hope that either the clutch bearing or the alignment are the culprit of my niose. (I pulled the primary system off before I checked the alignment)

If not I will move on to the next....but at least I will have the 3:37 gear in as a bonus.

While waiting I have studied all posts and fully understand what is ahead of me thanks to you all. I have everything cleaned and prepped ready to go.

I also have the Harley Service Bulliten (M-1170) reguarding the "Compensating Sprocket Torque Procedure". Apparantly the Compensator Nut can loosen and cause all kinds of issues. I found several people in the forums that this has happened to while I was researching Primary noises.

I have also added an additional spacer recommended by forum members to increase clamp load (HD 24033-70).

When I heard of this I figured that this must be my problem... mine was tight and showed no signs of play. Maybe the additional spacer will add the extra clamping pressure in may need.


This bulliten is for "2003 -2005 Touring, Softail and Dyna model motorcycles including CVO models with twi-cam Engines. Production vehicles began using this procedure May of 2005"

I will keep you posted.

Thanks again

[topgunaxle]

I have the same problem on my 2006 dyna lowrider. It is in the shop now. Problem started at 11000 miles

[route66paul]

Originally Posted by calin

.........Booggerbe - yes, it is difficult to find neutral when I am stopped, but I can pop it in easily as I slow down

This means only that you are riding an HD. They are ALL hard to find neutral when stopped.

[topgunaxle]

Originally Posted by topgunaxle

I have the same problem on my 2006 dyna lowrider. It is in the shop now. Problem started at 11000 miles

Problem turned out to be the inner primary bearing

[Pikeslayer]

Originally Posted by Pikeslayer

I had a problem similar to this. In neutral running with clutch pulled in the whirring would go away. When I let the clutch out in neutral the noise would come back. My rear primary bearing was bad. Replaced under warranty at about 4500 miles. I guess this was an issue on some 2006 Dynas.

Hmmmmm.... who'd a thunk it?

[Fixuntilbroke]

when i tore my motor down i noticed that with the plates removed when i spun the basket it was elliptical or had runout, my local guy said its normal just wondering what you think since were on that subject...

[Pikeslayer]

Originally Posted by Fixuntilbroke

when i tore my motor down i noticed that with the plates removed when i spun the basket it was elliptical or had runout, my local guy said its normal just wondering what you think since were on that subject...

I'm no expert, but I would say that is not normal.