cam chain polishing

[shrinkman2]

I've heard of people "polishing" the original twin cam camshaft chains. Question is, how and/or what is the process for doing this???

[JRS]

Don't know the exact technique, but companies like Zippers will do it for you. It's crucial that all traces of abrasive are removed from the chain before reinstalling it.

[shrinkman2]

yeah that would be my concern!!!

[sbrisbay]

try this link
http://www.hotrodsbikeworks.com/tech...ain/index.html

[Larry5150]

Wow, i just cant believe it, i checked out that link someone put on here about how to polish a cam chain, and THEY were using abrasives...!?!?!?!
WRONG WRONG WRONG...!!! DO NOT DO THAT...!!!!

I dont care HOW MANY times you wash that cam chain and blow it out with compressed air, you will NEVER get those abrasive`s out of it...!!!! OHHH, and the compressed air will actually blow the abrasives deeper into the links....!!!!! I guess we still have alot of backwoods garage bandits out there huh. Nice website... maybe they should think about investing in a REAL chain polishing machine and learn some REAL professional technic, instead of trying to look like they are all kewl with their cute little website and bragging girly bike pictures. (as well as their lame video`s)

I also cant believe i saw the picture on their site with the guy just holding on the chain and buffing it. (DUH...!!!!) Gee, i bet thats real uniform huh...? I bet that chain gets heated up pretty dam good the way they`re doing it too (nice craftsmen gloves... ther`s your proof they are bandit`s....lol lol lol. Your cam chain wont have any fingerprint`s or oils or acids from their skin on your chain when they`re done, but they`ll leave you with ALL the abrasive`s in it for you...lol)

One statement they said on their website, IS true...
a polished chain will surely make the tensioner shoe`s last a bit longer... BUT, they still wear pretty fast nonetheless, due to inferior design...! (your harley chains are made in china now too... crappy finish on them... so have them done at a good shop that HAS a REAL chain polisher, its worth it...!)

The method i use, to polish chains here is, it DOES NOT use abrasives...!!!
(i have a special liquid/paste formula JUST for polishing chains - NO ABRASIVES...PERIOD...!)
(And YES, i have a real chain polishing machine)
Its a motorized drive that the chains ride on, so the chain DOES NOT EVER get heated up from buffing like THEY are doing. The cam chains are turning 30rpm`s, while the polishing wheels are turning against the chains. Ther is also a tension meter on my chain polishing machine to tell how much pressure is against the chain surface so as not to overheat it during the polishing steps with too much pressure. How does THAT "craftsmen glove guy" know how much pressure he`s using ALL the way around that chain is beyond me. Oh gee, he`s probably a pro, been doin it forever, so he know`s how much "hand pressure" to apply.

Anyhow, if you`re not gonna get it done right, by a professional chain polisher, then just DONT do it at all...! Save yourself from a future engine failure. Any abrasive going into your motor will not be nice to your motor in short time.

[Totenkopf]

"I have a special liquid/paste formula"

what is it?

[Mo-Dog]

...and....may I ask how you can you polish a surface, any surface with abrasives??... is your paste a very fine abrasive??...

Originally Posted by Totenkopf

"I have a special liquid/paste formula"

what is it?

[jerry34208]

Originally Posted by Mo-Dog

...and....may I ask how you can you polish a surface, any surface with abrasives??... is your paste a very fine abrasive??...

Same thing I was thinking when I read that. Though I'd agree the machine is prolly more consistent. Not gonna research it though. I'd rather spend $ replacing the chain system with gears than polish a chain as a band-aid.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by jerry34208

Same thing I was thinking when I read that. Though I'd agree the machine is prolly more consistent. Not gonna research it though. I'd rather spend $ replacing the chain system with gears than polish a chain as a band-aid.

Polish chains = BandAid.... you are absolutely correct..!
Pull the trigger on a gear drive system... its proven fail safe...!
If you think about it, geardrive is cheaper over the longhaul,(especailly if you replace the tentioners, cams, lifters, bearings, gaskets, oil, filters, then pay labor, 3 times in a row) and piece of mind when your on a long trip. If your tensioners go south, so dont the rest of the motor some of the time... dam costly for some cheap azz tentioner issues if you ask me, but some guys like`m because they cant stand a little gear whining coming from the cam chest cavity. (straight cut gears will ALWAYS whine a little... thats just the way that it is... personally i like the sound of ANYTHING thats "straight cut" geardriven gears)

As for the polish i use,(because some people just GOTTA have that crappy lame chain drive, so i offer to polish them at my shop for them) i get it from where i work.... i am a CNC "medical implant" machinist,(med stainless & med titainium) not sure what it has in it, but we cant use abrasive agents on ANY of the medical parts we make because these parts get implanted into humans. I like using it because ther are NO abrasive`s in it. It really works very well...!

Anyhow... hope i helped you to decide on doin geardrive instead of chains... its WELL worth it...!

[jerry34208]

Originally Posted by Larry5150

Polish chains = BandAid.... you are absolutely correct..!
Pull the trigger on a gear drive system... its proven fail safe...!
If you think about it, geardrive is cheaper over the longhaul,(especailly if you replace the tentioners, cams, lifters, bearings, gaskets, oil, filters, then pay labor, 3 times in a row) and piece of mind when your on a long trip. If your tensioners go south, so dont the rest of the motor some of the time... dam costly for some cheap azz tentioner issues if you ask me, but some guys like`m because they cant stand a little gear whining coming from the cam chest cavity. (straight cut gears will ALWAYS whine a little... thats just the way that it is... personally i like the sound of ANYTHING thats "straight cut" geardriven gears)

As for the polish i use,(because some people just GOTTA have that crappy lame chain drive, so i offer to polish them at my shop for them) i get it from where i work.... i am a CNC "medical implant" machinist,(med stainless & med titainium) not sure what it has in it, but we cant use abrasive agents on ANY of the medical parts we make because these parts get implanted into humans. I like using it because ther are NO abrasive`s in it. It really works very well...!

Anyhow... hope i helped you to decide on doin geardrive instead of chains... its WELL worth it...!

Thanks Larry, yes gear drive is the way, already done that. I like that sound of the straight cut gears also. BTW, if set up properly there is almost no whine. I can hear mine a little bit when the engine is cold but after warm up there is no dectectable gear noise. My builder is very meticuous. He checked lash at four points of rotation (90* apart) and chose over/under sized gears to get everything as quiet as possible. They don't have to be noisy if the builder is willing to get the correct size gears and if the crank run out is less than .003". Mine was .001" so things worked out great.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by jerry34208

Thanks Larry, yes gear drive is the way, already done that. I like that sound of the straight cut gears also. BTW, if set up properly there is almost no whine. I can hear mine a little bit when the engine is cold but after warm up there is no dectectable gear noise. My builder is very meticuous. He checked lash at four points of rotation (90* apart) and chose over/under sized gears to get everything as quiet as possible. They don't have to be noisy if the builder is willing to get the correct size gears and if the crank run out is less than .003". Mine was .001" so things worked out great.

Hello Jerry...
nice lines on the dyno results you posted, do you have a dyno chart with a 4th gear pull...?
I bet your bike is alotta fun to ride, by the looks of the power...!!! Are the cams noisey..?
Good job, on who ever the person was, that set it up... no gear noise, i`m impressed..!
Too many attemp to do their own gear drive set-up`s, and then complain about loud gear`s.
I`m sure its due to the fact they didnt "properly" check what YOUR builder did, when he did your engine.

I also apoligize, i actually posted this for the guy to read that was actually asking about chain polishing...
i was hopeing to convince him into forgeting the chain drive all together, and just spend the bucks for gear drive.

(larry)

[dog155]

Polishing a chain? They would be better off polishing their knob,it won't cost so much in the end.

[jerry34208]

Originally Posted by Larry5150

Hello Jerry...
nice lines on the dyno results you posted, do you have a dyno chart with a 4th gear pull...?
I bet your bike is alotta fun to ride, by the looks of the power...!!! Are the cams noisey..?
Good job, on who ever the person was, that set it up... no gear noise, i`m impressed..!
Too many attemp to do their own gear drive set-up`s, and then complain about loud gear`s.
I`m sure its due to the fact they didnt "properly" check what YOUR builder did, when he did your engine.

I also apoligize, i actually posted this for the guy to read that was actually asking about chain polishing...
i was hopeing to convince him into forgeting the chain drive all together, and just spend the bucks for gear drive.

(larry)

Larry:

He used fifth because of having the 3:37 primary. Better #'s I think? As you know, the #s are different on every dyno. I had it on a "known" dyno, one that I have used several times on three different builds in the same bike and the peak hp was down five from the one I have posted in my signature. I don't know for sure but I think the guys at the "known" dyno use fourth gear for their runs. So, of course I use the one with the highest #s for my signature, ha ha. Anyway the bike goes like stink and never misses a beat. No popping on decel, it just runs great!

Yes the cams are noisy but the gears are not. There is a little bit of whine when it's cold but it goes away in a couple of minutes. I like that sound, so long as it's just for a while. It's as though the motor is reminding me "Hold on, I'm getting ready to GO!". I don't mind the valve train noise since I know it's because of the aggressive ramp angles of the TW6HG. I knew to expect it to be a noisy cam from reading these forum threads and from speaking to Doc about the build recipe.

I agree with you on the reason you hear so much about gear drives being noisy. It also helped that my crankshaft had only .001" of runout. You can use gears with cranks that have up to .004" runout but it's not easy to keep the gears quiet at that number. Too tight gives a whine and excess heat, failure is eminent. Too loose and it clatters like a diesel. Getting the correct over/undersized gears costs money and time to wait for shipping. You also have to have some experience to know which one to order based upon the amount of lash you measure at the various positions of rotation.

My builder is Doc in Clermont (near Orlando). He did everything right and has a reputation for his knowledge and commitment to detail. If anyone wants his phone # just send me a PM. He is also one of the best SERT tuners out there. He taught the course at MMI for several years and these days he free lance's, teaching the techs at the better dealerships (the ones committed to quality SERT tuning) around the country.

Edit: Just re-read my previous post, sorry to repeat some of the same points.

[Larry5150]

Originally Posted by jerry34208

Larry:

He used fifth because of having the 3:37 primary. Better #'s I think? As you know, the #s are different on every dyno. I had it on a "known" dyno, one that I have used several times on three different builds in the same bike and the peak hp was down five from the one I have posted in my signature. I don't know for sure but I think the guys at the "known" dyno use fourth gear for their runs. So, of course I use the one with the highest #s for my signature, ha ha. Anyway the bike goes like stink and never misses a beat. No popping on decel, it just runs great!

Yes the cams are noisy but the gears are not. There is a little bit of whine when it's cold but it goes away in a couple of minutes. I like that sound, so long as it's just for a while. It's as though the motor is reminding me "Hold on, I'm getting ready to GO!". I don't mind the valve train noise since I know it's because of the aggressive ramp angles of the TW6HG. I knew to expect it to be a noisy cam from reading these forum threads and from speaking to Doc about the build recipe.

I agree with you on the reason you hear so much about gear drives being noisy. It also helped that my crankshaft had only .001" of runout. You can use gears with cranks that have up to .004" runout but it's not easy to keep the gears quiet at that number. Too tight gives a whine and excess heat, failure is eminent. Too loose and it clatters like a diesel. Getting the correct over/undersized gears costs money and time to wait for shipping. You also have to have some experience to know which one to order based upon the amount of lash you measure at the various positions of rotation.

My builder is Doc in Clermont (near Orlando). He did everything right and has a reputation for his knowledge and commitment to detail. If anyone wants his phone # just send me a PM. He is also one of the best SERT tuners out there. He taught the course at MMI for several years and these days he free lance's, teaching the techs at the better dealerships (the ones committed to quality SERT tuning) around the country.

Edit: Just re-read my previous post, sorry to repeat some of the same points.

Jerry...
dude i totally agree with everything you wrote in here...!!!!

I wish i lived closer to the DOC, he IS the master...!!!!!!

"DOC RAWKKKKK`S...!!!"

(larry)

[Pikeslayer]

Originally Posted by Larry5150

Wow, i just cant believe it, i checked out that link someone put on here about how to polish a cam chain, and THEY were using abrasives...!?!?!?!
WRONG WRONG WRONG...!!! DO NOT DO THAT...!!!!

I dont care HOW MANY times you wash that cam chain and blow it out with compressed air, you will NEVER get those abrasive`s out of it...!!!! OHHH, and the compressed air will actually blow the abrasives deeper into the links....!!!!! I guess we still have alot of backwoods garage bandits out there huh. Nice website... maybe they should think about investing in a REAL chain polishing machine and learn some REAL professional technic, instead of trying to look like they are all kewl with their cute little website and bragging girly bike pictures. (as well as their lame video`s)

I also cant believe i saw the picture on their site with the guy just holding on the chain and buffing it. (DUH...!!!!) Gee, i bet thats real uniform huh...? I bet that chain gets heated up pretty dam good the way they`re doing it too (nice craftsmen gloves... ther`s your proof they are bandit`s....lol lol lol. Your cam chain wont have any fingerprint`s or oils or acids from their skin on your chain when they`re done, but they`ll leave you with ALL the abrasive`s in it for you...lol)

One statement they said on their website, IS true...
a polished chain will surely make the tensioner shoe`s last a bit longer... BUT, they still wear pretty fast nonetheless, due to inferior design...! (your harley chains are made in china now too... crappy finish on them... so have them done at a good shop that HAS a REAL chain polisher, its worth it...!)

The method i use, to polish chains here is, it DOES NOT use abrasives...!!!
(i have a special liquid/paste formula JUST for polishing chains - NO ABRASIVES...PERIOD...!)
(And YES, i have a real chain polishing machine)
Its a motorized drive that the chains ride on, so the chain DOES NOT EVER get heated up from buffing like THEY are doing. The cam chains are turning 30rpm`s, while the polishing wheels are turning against the chains. Ther is also a tension meter on my chain polishing machine to tell how much pressure is against the chain surface so as not to overheat it during the polishing steps with too much pressure. How does THAT "craftsmen glove guy" know how much pressure he`s using ALL the way around that chain is beyond me. Oh gee, he`s probably a pro, been doin it forever, so he know`s how much "hand pressure" to apply.

Anyhow, if you`re not gonna get it done right, by a professional chain polisher, then just DONT do it at all...! Save yourself from a future engine failure. Any abrasive going into your motor will not be nice to your motor in short time.

Wow! Kinda harsh aren't ya?

"I also cant believe i saw the picture on their site with the guy just holding on the chain and buffing it. (DUH...!!!!) Gee, i bet thats real uniform huh...? I bet that chain gets heated up pretty dam good the way they`re doing it too

You realize when it's in the engine it probably gets too hot to touch don't you? If that guy can hold it I'd say it's a non issue.

As far as abrasives go. You do realize cams are ground and cylinders are honed.

I've got about $1000 in my engine. I think for mild builds, there is no problem with chains. I couldn't see spending 40% more on my build for no more (significant) power. Now if I was drooping $8k on a motor it might be a different story. I've beat the bag off my bike for 5000 miles now no problem. Chains are working for 10's of thousands of people.